Something For Nothing

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simplicity
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Re: Something For Nothing

Post by simplicity »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:44 pmBut if we do subscribe to the physics paradigm, one cannot ignore the principle of least effort as a rational/pragmatic way of attaining one's goals.
Yeah, but that's Econ 101 [and is sketchy, at best]. Why people do what they do deviates greatly from what the heroes of economics thought. Much of this behavior was predicated on folks educating themselves whereas reality suggests that most couldn't be bothered in the least but something so mundane.
Skepdick wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:44 pmAs social creatures, we best make damn sure that the choice which requires least effort/cost coincides with the right choice.
Again, I am not sure what planet you're living on but here on Earth, the vast majority of people seem to act like blithering idiots when it comes to financial matters.
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Re: Something For Nothing

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simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:30 pm Again, I am not sure what planet you're living on but here on Earth, the vast majority of people seem to act like blithering idiots when it comes to financial matters.
I am living on the planet on which the quality and longevity of human life has been constantly improving for 300 years.

Despite "majority of people" being blithering idiots.

Methinks you are just a cynic.
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Re: Something For Nothing

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Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:11 pm Yes. Because "Britannica" means, "Only for the British." :lol:

Keep going. This just keeps getting funnier.
I can't! If you say one more thing I might die of laughter.

But maybe you want to explain to the rest of the world why you are appealing to an authority "Only for the British" when you are speaking to non-British people.

Maybe you are stupid like that in Britain?
simplicity
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Re: Something For Nothing

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Skepdick wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:31 pm
simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:30 pm Again, I am not sure what planet you're living on but here on Earth, the vast majority of people seem to act like blithering idiots when it comes to financial matters.
I am living on the planet on which the quality and longevity of human life has been constantly improving for 300 years.

Despite "majority of people" being blithering idiots.

Methinks you are just a cynic.
This is absolutely true but if you've ever been in one of those ghastly "groups," you might concur that it is ALWAYS the few who do ALL the work. The vast majority of people are living off the work of the few...always have, always will. And that's not such a bad thing as long as the few are rewarded justly for their efforts.
simplicity
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Re: Something For Nothing

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RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:28 pmAs ruthless and intractable as reality is and as tough as life is, that is not only true, but for anyone willing to do the work, the rewards of a life earned and achieved by one's own effort are many times more than any cost.
I am with you in spirit, but how do you figure that you can get more out of it then you put into it?
simplicity
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Re: Something For Nothing

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RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:17 pm I cannot agree that the purpose of life can be both. Certainly there are elements of both in however one lives their life. Things happen to everyone. The difference is in whether the things that happen to someone are the recognized consequences of one's own chosen actions or the unexpected consequences of one's failure to consciously choose their actions. It's the difference between those who take responsibility for their life and those who blame their every failure and unhappiness on everything but their own choices.
Again, I am with you in spirit, but what happens if you are walking down the sidewalk and somebody throws a bathtub off their 10th floor balcony and [as fate would have it] lands on your head?

There are many things that occur that are out of our control [pretty much everything]. The only thing we can do is react [or be proactive] with the greatest skill possible.
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Re: Something For Nothing

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Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:04 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:42 pm As ruthless and intractable as reality is and as tough as life is, that is not only true, but for anyone willing to do the work, the rewards of a life earned and achieved by one's own effort are many times more than any cost.
Yeah, you said that. But if you think that works out for most people, you need to get out of the house more.
You keep making assumptions. Most people are total failures in life. I you look around, almost everyone complains about all the things in life they are unhappy with, all believing that someone has deprived them of some supposed, "rights," they are just suppose to have. No one is willing to do the hard work of learning all they possibly can, of always using the best reason they are capable of, of doing the work required to achieve a truly successful life.

I see failure and misery everywhere, but I know it's the consequence of those individual's own chosen actions, just because they are willing to believe any lie that promises them an easy safe life and unearned wealth. They all look for shortcuts--why work so hard to learn, just believe what your peers, teacher, and athorities tell you. Why do all the hard work of thinking and planning for the future when you can vote for the party that promises to take care of you in your old age. Why work so hard to make sure your children are educated when the government will force your neighbors to pay for your children's education. But then they complain that the teachers are not teaching the children or are teaching them what they do no like, such as CRT. Well, they asked for it.
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:04 pm I've been in the middle of the then-second-biggest slum in the world, a group of four million desperately poor people, all in one area. I've met some of them, of course. They're very ordinary people with very hard circumstances. Some are downright noble, actually...hard-working, fiercely loyal, devoted to family, uncomplaining in the midst of horrendous circumstances.
Me too. I've seen the same and anybody can in almost any part of the world, especially those dominated by superstitious and repressive religions, like India, Myanmar, Pakistan, most of East Africa and much the middle East, or Hatie or much of South America. There is something obscene in calling the beliefs and practices of such people, "downright noble."

I'm sorry those people are ignorant, superstitious, and for whatever reason cannot motivate themselves to achieve more, (many do and leave, of course), but like it or not, their lives are their own making. If you've ever tried helping them you may have discovered for yourself, they actually resist improving themselves. They actually prefer their ignorance, superstitions, and subjugation to their, "traditions," and authorities. They prefer their squalor.

The next time you are wringing your hands over the poor, do a little research into how many can read and what they have to read and their attitude toward thinking for themselves.
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RCSaunders
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Re: Something For Nothing

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simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:49 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:17 pm I cannot agree that the purpose of life can be both. Certainly there are elements of both in however one lives their life. Things happen to everyone. The difference is in whether the things that happen to someone are the recognized consequences of one's own chosen actions or the unexpected consequences of one's failure to consciously choose their actions. It's the difference between those who take responsibility for their life and those who blame their every failure and unhappiness on everything but their own choices.
Again, I am with you in spirit, but what happens if you are walking down the sidewalk and somebody throws a bathtub off their 10th floor balcony and [as fate would have it] lands on your head?
Unless you have a very hard head, you'll probably die. Most deadly, "accidents," are the result of people being where they shouldn't be and not paying attention. There are no guarantees, except if you do not do your best you will fail.
simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:49 pm There are many things that occur that are out of our control [pretty much everything]. The only thing we can do is react [or be proactive] with the greatest skill possible.
It's actually not a, "we," thing. Though I'm not sure exactly what you mean by things out of our control, unless you mean things like weather, climate, other natural events, or the behavior of governments (like wars or printing money and causing inflation). Most things do not happen in a instant and preparation can be made for them, as you suggest.
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Re: Something For Nothing

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simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:39 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:28 pmAs ruthless and intractable as reality is and as tough as life is, that is not only true, but for anyone willing to do the work, the rewards of a life earned and achieved by one's own effort are many times more than any cost.
I am with you in spirit, but how do you figure that you can get more out of it then you put into it?
I'll give you an example. I regard life as a great adventure--hard, dangerous, but infinitely rewarding. My wife and I were bikers (Harley Davidsons both) for many years. They were very expensive customized bikes, and earning the money for them required a great deal of productive effort. The pleasure and adventures we had on those motocycles over the years, all the places we've been, people we've met, the dangers we faced and overcame, and sheer joy of having all that power in your hands to take you almost anywhere, were worth a hundred times what those motocycles cost.

I've enjoyed a plethera of occupations in my lifetime. A large chunk of that was in electronics, IT, and telephony involved in everything from software and hardware design to running publication departments. Years ago, working for Northern Telecom (which became Nortel--the second largest telephone company in the world at one time, but now defunct) a Japanese company ordered a full documentation set for the Nortel digital switching hardware and software. That documentation did not exist at the time. I volunteered to take the project to create the documentation, hired a team of ten writers and in six months created a 15000 page, ten volume set of documents, which became a company, "best seller." For six months, I ate, slept, and drank that gruelling project, which I was assured by upper management could not be done. The reward of completing that project was worth ten times the hours and effort that it cost me.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Something For Nothing

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Skepdick wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:33 pm Maybe you are stupid like that in Britain?
Poor soul! You make it funnier still. :lol:

I'm not in the UK, sport. You may think that everybody not of your tribe is, but I promise you, it's not true.

Kind of like your idea about monism and monotheism. That gets funnier too, when you look up the Wiki entry. You didn't even read it! :lol: It attributes monism to Hinduism, and does not confuse it with monotheism. You must have read the entry with your "beer goggles" on.

So you're quite right: even Wiki is much better than you on this.
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Re: Something For Nothing

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:06 pm I'm not in the UK, sport.
Neither am I, sport.
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:06 pm You may think that everybody not of your tribe is, but I promise you, it's not true.

So why does somebody who doesn't think like that refer their interlocutor to an authority "Only for the British"?
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:06 pm Kind of like your idea about monism and monotheism. That gets funnier too, when you look up the Wiki entry. You didn't even read it! :lol: It attributes monism to Hinduism, and does not confuse it with monotheism. You must have read the entry with your "beer goggles" on.

So you're quite right: even Wiki is much better than you on this.
You are confusing my confusion with yours. It's diffuclt-to-impossible to help somebody like you unconfuse themselves.
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Re: Something For Nothing

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simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:36 pm This is absolutely true but if you've ever been in one of those ghastly "groups," you might concur that it is ALWAYS the few who do ALL the work.

The vast majority of people are living off the work of the few...always have, always will. And that's not such a bad thing as long as the few are rewarded justly for their efforts.
Having worked in a few places with super-smart and super-produtive people I can't really relate. If not everyone was remunerated based on their input/hard work.

Having also worked at a few places which seem to match your description: it was only because people were disempowered to do any better.

Leadership failure not people failure.
Last edited by Skepdick on Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Something For Nothing

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:19 pm You are confusing my confusion with yours. .
No, I'm not confused enough not to be able to read my own Wiki. :lol:
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Re: Something For Nothing

Post by Skepdick »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:25 pm No, I'm not confused enough not to be able to read my own Wiki. :lol:
You are confused enough to call it "my wiki".

Here's a page on ownership. Not sure it will help, but it's worth a try.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Something For Nothing

Post by Immanuel Can »

Skepdick wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:26 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:25 pm No, I'm not confused enough not to be able to read my own Wiki. :lol:
You are confused enough to call it "my wiki".
Hey, you cited it. You made it the basis of your claim. You just "owned" yourself.
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