Again, this is simply nothing I ever said or ever would say.
A more competent "straw manning," is what you're looking for, atto.
Again, this is simply nothing I ever said or ever would say.
What? You did not state as a good Christian that you are in fact a manipulator of debates?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 pmAgain, this is simply nothing I ever said or ever would say.
A more competent "straw manning," is what you're looking for, atto.
So you truly would be scum if you didn't think there was someone watching over you.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 pmBut if I knew I was wrong, and thus, if I were an Atheist, I would know that no moral constraints remain upon we at all, and would very likely take full advantage of that fact, I think. Like Nietzsche, I suppose I would despise those who held back, and continued to believe in morality. I might regard it as a badge of courage, and certainly as opportunistically necessary, to get myself ahead at all costs.
Not at all. If there were no God, none of us would be "scum," no matter what we did. There'd be no grounds for such a condemnation at all.attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:01 pmSo you truly would be scum if you didn't think there was someone watching over you.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 pmBut if I knew I was wrong, and thus, if I were an Atheist, I would know that no moral constraints remain upon we at all, and would very likely take full advantage of that fact, I think. Like Nietzsche, I suppose I would despise those who held back, and continued to believe in morality. I might regard it as a badge of courage, and certainly as opportunistically necessary, to get myself ahead at all costs.
Oh. You thought I meant scum in the literal sense, ok.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:02 pmNot at all.attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:01 pmSo you truly would be scum if you didn't think there was someone watching over you.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:06 pmBut if I knew I was wrong, and thus, if I were an Atheist, I would know that no moral constraints remain upon we at all, and would very likely take full advantage of that fact, I think. Like Nietzsche, I suppose I would despise those who held back, and continued to believe in morality. I might regard it as a badge of courage, and certainly as opportunistically necessary, to get myself ahead at all costs.
Any thinking Atheist would. (But I'm no Atheist, of course.)attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:14 pm But you admit that you would likely take full advantage (of others) no matter what the cost (had you believe there was no God watching over your actions) - as per your above statement?
To take literally parables on faith, or not to take on faith that which contradicts scientific evidence, is a philosophical question.
What is this thing that, as you say, "contradicts scientific evidence"?
It does, actually. The first verse of Torah proves him wrong. It speaks of the "beginning" of the world. That which is itself eternal has, by definition, no "beginning."For example, Rambam (Maimonides) argues that the eternity of the world has not been proven, but the eternity of the world does not contradict the Torah.
What are they "preaching" that is "contrary to scientific evidence"? It's certainly not the non-eternality of the world, because even just pure mathenatics shows that Maimonides was wrong about that....the preachers of a literal understanding of the Bible contrary to scientific evidence...
But as the Bible says, God the Father is not "material." In fact, Torah holds that it is God who created the material world, not He who was created by it. The Creator obviously has to be greater than the created, or He could not be its Creator.The premise of a material god is absurd
Oi! Are you a Jew - from that mob that dobbed my mate in to the Romans?Janoah wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:41 pm To take literally parables on faith, or not to take on faith that which contradicts scientific evidence, is a philosophical question.
Maimonides talks about this in his book "The Guide for the Perplexed"
For example, Rambam (Maimonides) argues that the eternity of the world has not been proven, but the eternity of the world does not contradict the Torah.
And the proof of the existence of the One, he writes that he brings it precisely on the basis of the eternity of the world, in his halachic works.
That is, the premise that there was no creation of the world, and the world is co-eternal to the One, does not contradict the Torah (Pentateuch), in the vision of the greatest religious authority.
Maimonides writes that the preachers of a literal understanding of the Bible contrary to scientific evidence are the most vicious opponents of the Bible, degrading its glory.
The premise of a material god is absurd, which means belief in a material god is sever belief in absurdity.
And from a theological point of view, a material deity is an idol by definition of an idol.
And the "omnipotence" of the material god is that he can potentially fall under a tram, God forbid.
As a Christian myself, I rate you pretty shit as a Christian. I would go as far as to say unethical and showing a degree of cowardice by the way you debate with Atheists, most of whom appear to have mastered "thinking".Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:48 pmAny thinking Atheist would. (But I'm no Atheist, of course.)attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:14 pm But you admit that you would likely take full advantage (of others) no matter what the cost (had you believe there was no God watching over your actions) - as per your above statement?
..oh, that is so you (deep down it's who you are, not you fault, blame God, he made you) , except you think you are going to get some great reward and these mere atheists are going to be punished, oh the irony if you actually knew.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:48 pmHe would know that no moral constraints hang over his head, and he could not possibly miss the simple logic of, "I want it, I can get it, and when my life is over there is no more -- so what is there to prevent me from getting it, save my own cowardice?"
Y do you think i care wot some other tosser thinks - atheist or other_wise. Why does everyone around here keep quoting other people, I don't give a shit what their opinions were - I'm dealing with you, not Nietsche.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:48 pmNietsche saw that logic. And while even he lacked the courage to follow it through completely, he knew full well that's what logic required. It required us all to be "beyond good and evil."
And yet when I put that idea to you - you mocked it.
This is how a mind works that has been totally corrupted by superstition and is unable to reason or think correctly.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:48 pmAny thinking Atheist would. (But I'm no Atheist, of course.)attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:14 pm But you admit that you would likely take full advantage (of others) no matter what the cost (had you believe there was no God watching over your actions) - as per your above statement?
He would know that no moral constraints hang over his head, and he could not possibly miss the simple logic of, "I want it, I can get it, and when my life is over there is no more -- so what is there to prevent me from getting it, save my own cowardice?"