Think nothing of it.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:40 pmThanks!
Christianity
- Alexis Jacobi
- Posts: 5385
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am
Re: Christianity
Re: Christianity
I don't know if there is a God, but, if there is, I'm quite certain we won't find him in the Bible, nor any other mythology.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:17 pm If we both go down, then we go down as martyrs in the face of an unjust god. However, I can't for the life of me believe that Yahweh is the one and only true God. My faith is that God is good, not some psychopath who wants to punish the innocent and deals in fear.
- Immanuel Can
- Posts: 22528
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm
Re: Christianity
Have you tried the little "experiment" I proposed a few pages back?
It doesn't require you to believe anything at all in advance. It just offers you a way to investigate -- assuming that's what you would care to do.
However, there hasn't yet been time since I suggested it for the experiment to pan out one way or the other, so can only assume you haven't. Maybe you don't want to know?
-
- Posts: 8341
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
- Location: Professional Underdog Pound
Re: Christianity
Oh look, Harbal. IC wants you to suffer for your "sins". He seems to need that in order to validate his own pathetic existence. I suggest ignoring any "experiments" IC gives you involving his Yahweh. Otherwise, you'll regret it. I say that from lived experience. Discarding Yahweh is the first step to any real happiness for those with clear consciences.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:20 pmHave you tried the little "experiment" I proposed a few pages back?
It doesn't require you to believe anything at all in advance. It just offers you a way to investigate -- assuming that's what you would care to do.
However, there hasn't yet been time since I suggested it for the experiment to pan out one way or the other, so can only assume you haven't. Maybe you don't want to know?
- Immanuel Can
- Posts: 22528
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm
Re: Christianity
Yes, Gary...you're my model of a guy with "real happiness" and a "clear conscience."Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:33 pm Discarding Yahweh is the first step to any real happiness for those with clear consciences.
-
- Posts: 8341
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
- Location: Professional Underdog Pound
Re: Christianity
Actually, I feel perfectly fine after prying you out of my mind.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:45 pmYes, Gary...you're my model of a guy with "real happiness" and a "clear conscience."Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:33 pm Discarding Yahweh is the first step to any real happiness for those with clear consciences.
- Alexis Jacobi
- Posts: 5385
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:00 am
Re: Christianity
The 'experiment' that Immanuel Can suggests is one that would work (if that is the right term) for anyone, in any time, in any place, inside or outside of Judaism or Christianity. Why? Because it is an act of beckoning to the Self. And when the Self is beckoned to the Self responds. Especially perhaps when one is in a fix or an impasse.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:33 pm Oh look, Harbal. IC wants you to suffer for your "sins". He seems to need that in order to validate his own pathetic existence. I suggest ignoring any "experiments" IC gives you involving his Yahweh. Otherwise, you'll regret it. I say that from lived experience. Discarding Yahweh is the first step to any real happiness for those with clear consciences.
-
- Posts: 8341
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
- Location: Professional Underdog Pound
Re: Christianity
Personally, I find discarding mental parasites to be much more alleviating. Gets right to the root of the problem.Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:53 pmThe 'experiment' that Immanuel Can suggests is one that would work (if that is the right term) for anyone, in any time, in any place, inside or outside of Judaism or Christianity. Why? Because it is an act of beckoning to the Self. And when the Self is beckoned to the Self responds. Especially perhaps when one is in a fix or an impasse.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:33 pm Oh look, Harbal. IC wants you to suffer for your "sins". He seems to need that in order to validate his own pathetic existence. I suggest ignoring any "experiments" IC gives you involving his Yahweh. Otherwise, you'll regret it. I say that from lived experience. Discarding Yahweh is the first step to any real happiness for those with clear consciences.
Re: Christianity
No, I didn't try the experiment; I don't have any reason to. You have told me the benefits of embracing Christianity, but I am not attracted by them. You have also told me of the danger in declining it, but I don't believe it. Besides, I could never adopt your style of Christianity; many of your beliefs and attitudes are far too unpalatable to me.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:20 pm
Have you tried the little "experiment" I proposed a few pages back?
It doesn't require you to believe anything at all in advance. It just offers you a way to investigate -- assuming that's what you would care to do.
However, there hasn't yet been time since I suggested it for the experiment to pan out one way or the other, so can only assume you haven't. Maybe you don't want to know?
Incidentally, it has also been suggested to me that I should try meditation, and various other things, but I didn't act on those suggestion, either, so I'm not just singling out Christianity for rejection.
- Immanuel Can
- Posts: 22528
- Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:42 pm
Re: Christianity
No, that's fine. That's a choice, too.Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:56 pmNo, I didn't try the experiment; I don't have any reason to. You have told me the benefits of embracing Christianity, but I am not attracted by them. You have also told me of the danger in declining it, but I don't believe it. Besides, I could never adopt your style of Christianity; many of your beliefs and attitudes are far too unpalatable to me.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:20 pm
Have you tried the little "experiment" I proposed a few pages back?
It doesn't require you to believe anything at all in advance. It just offers you a way to investigate -- assuming that's what you would care to do.
However, there hasn't yet been time since I suggested it for the experiment to pan out one way or the other, so can only assume you haven't. Maybe you don't want to know?
Incidentally, it has also been suggested to me that I should try meditation, and various other things, but I didn't act on those suggestion, either, so I'm not just singling out Christianity for rejection.
I just pointed out that there are neutral ways of investigating, should the day ever come when you regard the issue as serious. I'm not saying that day is today, or that it will necessarily ever come. But it might.
Re: Christianity
I don't have a clear conscience, I have plenty of regrets, but God, even an existent one, could not remove any guilt I am left with. To convince myself that he could would be a cop out, a weakness, and a failure to take responsibility for my own mistakes.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:33 pm Oh look, Harbal. IC wants you to suffer for your "sins". He seems to need that in order to validate his own pathetic existence. I suggest ignoring any "experiments" IC gives you involving his Yahweh. Otherwise, you'll regret it. I say that from lived experience. Discarding Yahweh is the first step to any real happiness for those with clear consciences.
You need have no worries about me, Gary, I'm pretty impervious to the appeals of religion.
-
- Posts: 8341
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
- Location: Professional Underdog Pound
Re: Christianity
OK. As long as you'll be fine. I'm sorry to hear you have regrets. I have some too, things I wish I had done differently. But I did those things in good conscience, believing they were the right thing to do at the time. Perhaps they were or perhaps they weren't. In any case, tomorrow is a new day and a new chance to apply lessons learned. We all make mistakes, we'll probably make more. I don't believe any human being is inherently evil, only inherently misguided. We do our best with what we have in our finite, limited toolboxes.Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:07 pmI don't have a clear conscience, I have plenty of regrets, but God, even an existent one, could not remove any guilt I am left with. To convince myself that he could would be a cop out, a weakness, and a failure to take responsibility for my own mistakes.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:33 pm Oh look, Harbal. IC wants you to suffer for your "sins". He seems to need that in order to validate his own pathetic existence. I suggest ignoring any "experiments" IC gives you involving his Yahweh. Otherwise, you'll regret it. I say that from lived experience. Discarding Yahweh is the first step to any real happiness for those with clear consciences.
You need have no worries about me, Gary, I'm pretty impervious to the appeals of religion.
Re: Christianity
Okay, that sounds reasonable, but I would still rather not try it, just in case it works.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:04 pm
No, that's fine. That's a choice, too.
I just pointed out that there are neutral ways of investigating, should the day ever come when you regard the issue as serious. I'm not saying that day is today, or that it will necessarily ever come. But it might.
-
- Posts: 8341
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
- Location: Professional Underdog Pound
Re: Christianity
Harbal, sometimes it takes considerable distance to have enough hindsight to come to terms with mistakes and realize we weren't really as bad as we may have thought. It takes time. And patience. And sometimes a little mental house cleaning. You'll get there and you'll be back up and running full speed again. Feel free to drop me a PM if you ever feel a need for someone to talk to.
Re: Christianity
You seem like a decent, level headed bloke, Gary, so I guess at least something must have gone right.Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:15 pm OK. As long as you'll be fine. I'm sorry to hear you have regrets. I have some too, things I wish I had done differently. But I did those things in good conscience, believing they were the right thing to do at the time. Perhaps they were or perhaps they weren't. In any case, tomorrow is a new day and a new chance to apply lessons learned. We all make mistakes, we'll probably make more. I don't believe any human being is inherently evil, only inherently misguided. We do our best with what we have in our finite, limited toolboxes.