promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:20 pmI bid thee, what so troubles my Christian brothers that they should quarrel and fight as they do?
This Christian brother does what Jesus is said never to have done: I laugh.
promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:20 pmI bid thee, what so troubles my Christian brothers that they should quarrel and fight as they do?
I've discussed this here, at length, in other threads...and even made some references to it in this one. So that's not a very good theory.iambiguous wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:36 pmMy guess:promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:20 pm I bid thee, what so troubles my Christian brothers that they should quarrel and fight as they do?
To keep the discussions as far removed from this...
1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of the Christian God
I addressed this one too...with you personally, as I recall. You seem to have forgotten.2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why the Christian God?
I pointed out that you don't even know what you mean by "dasein." So if there's a problem with that, it's on you, for not knowing what you're talking about.3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in the Christian God
You mean my favourite types of questions? Anytime you like.4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and the Christian God
Yep.Unless, of course, I'm wrong.
So let me get this straight: you don't think "Christian" is defined by what Christ did (and taught).Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:23 pm This Christian brother does what Jesus is said never to have done: I laugh.
He's discussed this. Now, where are the posts in which he actually provides us with a demonstrable proof of the Christian God's existence.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:51 pmI've discussed this here, at length, in other threads...and even made some references to it in this one. So that's not a very good theory.iambiguous wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:36 pmMy guess:promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:20 pm I bid thee, what so troubles my Christian brothers that they should quarrel and fight as they do?
To keep the discussions as far removed from this...
1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of the Christian God
2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why the Christian God?
He's addressed this too. Well, let him provide us with what he construes to be his best argument -- demonstrable proof? -- that of all the hundreds and hundreds of One True Religious Paths out there offering us immortality and salvation, his really, really, really, really is the One True Religious Path.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:51 pmI addressed this one too...with you personally, as I recall. You seem to have forgotten.
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in the Christian God
He's pointed that out. But where's the part where he demonstrates that his own childhood indoctrination, his own personal experiences predisposing him toward the Christian God have absolutely no bearing on his own existential leap of faith? How intellectually shallow does one have to be not to recognize the role that their own historical, cultural and personal experiences play in their religious beliefs?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:51 pmI pointed out that you don't even know what you mean by "dasein." So if there's a problem with that, it's on you, for not knowing what you're talking about.
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and the Christian God
How about his favorite answer to the question, "why did the Christian God, claimed by many to be omniscient and omnipotent, as well as loving, just and merciful, bring into existence an endless stream of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions and tornadoes and hurricanes and great floods and great droughts and great fires and deadly viral and bacterial plagues and miscarriages and hundreds and hundreds of medical afflictions and extinction events...making life on Earth a living hell for countless millions of men, women and children down through the ages?"Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:51 pmYou mean my favourite types of questions? Anytime you like.
He's discussed this. Now, where are the posts in which he actually provides us with a demonstrable proof of the Christian God's existence.
Why do people need to keep repeating for you, answers which they already gave you??He's addressed this too. Well, let him provide us with what he construes to be his best argument -- demonstrable proof? -- that of all the hundreds and hundreds of One True Religious Paths out there offering us immortality and salvation, his really, really, really, really is the One True Religious Path.
Of course! Make it all about me!!Larry wrote:He's discussed this. Now, where are the posts in which he actually provides us with a demonstrable proof of the Christian God's existence.Why do people need to keep repeating for you, answers which they already gave you??He's addressed this too. Well, let him provide us with what he construes to be his best argument -- demonstrable proof? -- that of all the hundreds and hundreds of One True Religious Paths out there offering us immortality and salvation, his really, really, really, really is the One True Religious Path.
As I have said a few times: I am here for my own purposes, and I will pursue what is interesting to me and what seems important and relevant. You are a wonderful and also a useful foil (contrast, antithesis) to have for the sort of conversation that I find relevant. So with that said I am going to continue on with those things that I find relevant and needful.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 9:13 pmSo let me get this straight: you don't think "Christian" is defined by what Christ did (and taught).Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:23 pm This Christian brother does what Jesus is said never to have done: I laugh.
But you think that whether or not I'm a good Christian is defined by what Christ did.
Which way is it? Is Christ relevant to the definition of a Christian, or not?
What I think about you and also the general-you of many Christians is summed-up with:But you think that whether or not I'm a good Christian is defined by what Christ did.
The ethical teachings of Christianity, of Catholicism, the social teaching, and many of the theological doctrines, are to my mind first-rate. But these are theological teaching that have been worked and in this sense born through centuries of meditation and intellectual work. They are there. Anyone can access this information in the catechetic sense. But they don't of course because, for different reasons, and though various causes, the God-image has been shattered.The advocates of Christianity squander their energies in the mere preservation of what has come down to them, with no thought of building on to their house and making it roomier. Stagnation in these matters is threatened in the long run with a lethal end.
What do you wish to believe that I'd say when, here, I have explained a great deal of what I think on the issue but suspect that you will sort of bend it to your own purposes?Which way is it? Is Christ relevant to the definition of a Christian, or not?
Seriously. You take no responsibility for your actions.Of course! Make it all about me!!
Go and look. There are some in this very thread, and lots elsewhere. You're just late on the scene and not up to speed.iambiguous wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 9:41 pm...where are the posts...Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:51 pmI've discussed this here, at length, in other threads...and even made some references to it in this one. So that's not a very good theory.iambiguous wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 7:36 pm
My guess:
To keep the discussions as far removed from this...
1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of the Christian God
Yep. Why don't you tell us what you remember, and we'll fill in the holes in your knowledge.2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why the Christian God?He's addressed this too.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:51 pmI addressed this one too...with you personally, as I recall. You seem to have forgotten.
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in the Christian GodHe's pointed that out.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:51 pmI pointed out that you don't even know what you mean by "dasein." So if there's a problem with that, it's on you, for not knowing what you're talking about.
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and the Christian God
He didn't. We did. But we talked about this before, earlier in this thread...once again, you were on a nap, I guess.How about his favorite answer to the question, "why did the Christian God bring into existence...earthquakes and volcanic eruptions and tornadoes and hurricanes and great floods and great droughts and great fires and deadly viral and bacterial plagues and miscarriages and hundreds and hundreds of medical afflictions and extinction events...Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:51 pmYou mean my favourite types of questions? Anytime you like.
Oh, the melodrama!...making life on Earth a living hell
Great. Now, answer the question.Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 10:11 pmAs I have said a few times: I am here for my own purposes, and I will pursue what is interesting to me and what seems important and relevant.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 9:13 pmSo let me get this straight: you don't think "Christian" is defined by what Christ did (and taught).Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 8:23 pm This Christian brother does what Jesus is said never to have done: I laugh.
But you think that whether or not I'm a good Christian is defined by what Christ did.
Which way is it? Is Christ relevant to the definition of a Christian, or not?
To be frank with you I think that I do not accept Jesus Christ, the person (I know he is described and viewed as a God-Man), as being an authority to which one can turn for any decisions.
What I think about you and also the general-you of many Christians is summed-up with:But you think that whether or not I'm a good Christian is defined by what Christ did.
Where do we fit you in here Immanuel? Are you so fragile that you cannot subject yourself to critical analysis and also introspection?
Just something in which you aren't contradicting yourself. That'd be nice.What do you wish to believe that I'd say...Which way is it? Is Christ relevant to the definition of a Christian, or not?
The example I presented to you, above, was for other purposes (see that post).Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 11:49 pmAJ wrote:
So the easiest way for you to understand this would be to take the example of a 'former Democrat' (speaking of the American scene) who in a process of discovery and realization turns toward so-called 'conservative principles' in some light degree, possibly and for example those that Bork outlined in his book Slouching Toward Gomorrah. That person, to complete this shift, may merely reassign himself into a different political party and work politically, socially and intellectually (i.e. in his reading or the news he reads/watches). There may also be a 'return to church-going' as part of this processes. That is, a return to formerly established conservatism of a sort. Nothing more may occur. And indeed this is, sort of in any case, what the Jordan Petersons and Dave Rubins have done. (Peterson goes a bit, or even quite a bit further, insofar as he does outline internal processes -- psycho-spiritual as it might be called).
And is that where you are, too? Are you a "red-pilled" ex-Democrat, as they say?
I operate within more fluid predicates. This goes back to conversations we had years ago in PM.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 10:21 pmWhich way is it: is Christ relevant to the definition? You've said both, as indicated above.
I was asking because of your mention of people like Rubins and Peterson, as well as Bork and Weaver. There's not much in any of them that the New Left would appreciate. And if you regard your roots as is California radicalism, then that would be quite a move in the centrist direction to end up near where those folks are.Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 10:31 pmThe example I presented to you, above, was for other purposes (see that post).Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 11:49 pm And is that where you are, too? Are you a "red-pilled" ex-Democrat, as they say?
It's certainly rising....dissident right-leaning ideas. You are well aware of the presence and influence of the Radical Left but this pole also has to be mentioned in the context of politics.
James Lindsay says, and I think he's totally right, it's neo-Marxism. So their "metaphysics" are premised in a blind faith in dialectic and a blind faith that "history" has its own desirable teleological trajectory. I've read quite a bit of their stuff, and the Leftists' core theorists claim that the telos or goal of history cannot even be spoken of in advance of its arrival, so you can't even ask them, "Where does all this anger and destruction end up?" They don't know, and insist nobody can know, and yet say it's bound to be good.Those who are *of the radical left* (I would gather) must have some sort of metaphysical platform, mustn't they? and yet what it is is not very clear to me.
The center left is now considered part of the "radical right," by the hard Leftists. So I guess that puts you on the right, whether you want to be or not. They don't seem to want to give anybody a choice.But in my own case I definitely tend in the direction of a structured right-tending politics. Yet I also appreciate, and very much so, the Classical Liberal posture as revealed, say, by Isaiah Berlin.
You seem to have resolved to get over your ridiculous, pouty sensitivity is how I'd put it. Nothing at all has changed on my end. You've made a change on yours and, as long as it lasts, I commend you. Be strong!P.S. -- Now, this is better. Now we're talking.
Heh. Wow. Can't take a win, eh?Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri May 20, 2022 11:27 pmYou seem to have resolved to get over your ridiculous, pouty sensitivity is how I'd put it. Nothing at all has changed on my end. You've made a change on yours and, as long as it lasts, I commend you. Be strong!P.S. -- Now, this is better. Now we're talking.