Christianity

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Christianity

Post by Immanuel Can »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:30 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:24 pm ...
My idea is virtually identical with the description here.
No. "Occidental paideia," your idea of it. Your definition, not somebody else's.

AND your application of "imperialism" to the quotation we were discussing.

Stop running and ante up. If you can.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Christianity

Post by Immanuel Can »

Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:36 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:05 pm
Harbal wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:04 pm

I don't know what it is, but I think I may have a recipe for it in one of my Nigella Lawson cookery books. :|
Sounds like a fish pie of some sort. :wink:
Most of what Alexis talks about sounds fishy. :wink:
Because of his incessant carping? Or because he's complaicent? His running-on gives me a terrible haddock.

I always knew his ideas smelt. :wink:
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:43 pm No. "Occidental paideia," your idea of it. Your definition, not somebody else's.
You are playing games now. It is just like you. Deal with the definition offered or don't. My definition is non-different from both those offered.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Christianity

Post by Immanuel Can »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:10 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:43 pm No. "Occidental paideia," your idea of it. Your definition, not somebody else's.
You are playing games now. I
"I'm" playing games? :lol:

Nope, Sunny Jim...you are. And I'm pretty sure why.

You can't say what your "occidental paidiea" consists of, either because you really have not the faintest idea, or you realize that any honesty and frankness about it would expose you to the charge of racism. Either way, you're being disingenuous.

And you haven't twitched one finger to try to show the "imperialism" in the quotation, and repeatedly ignored my asking for you to do so, for one very simple reason -- it's not there. :shock: You were lying.

And like a squid escaping, 🦑 you'll now squirt a bunch of ink on some distracting topic, insult my ancestors, and flee the task. I'm confident of it.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

The important point is that there is a very real, a very tangible, a very coherent, and a very influential alternative to what I have called Christian transport and Christian enthusiasm. And all of that is found in our own traditions the bulk of which derive from the Greek intellectual world.

In my view, this is what would need to be recovered. Not a mysterious relationship with a mystic spirit. And not a subservience to an idea-concept that operates imperialistically. But bona fide intellectual cultivation in those matters and materials that are foundational to our own Occidental culture.

I do not think that Occidental paideia would need, either, to jettison Christian theology, but I do feel that the Greek-oriented paideia and Greek-derived paideia certainly provides a necessary counter-point to the enthusiastic world -- such as that revealed by Benny Hinn.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:15 pm And you haven't twitched one finger to try to show the "imperialism" in the quotation, and repeatedly ignored my asking for you to do so, for one very simple reason -- it's not there. :shock: You were lying.
You will need to first show that you can grasp what Occidental paideia is. It requires no more definition than what I have provided. You are playing a game when you deny, as you seem to, that a sensible definition was given.

You can deal with what has been given or not. It does not change much.

Hebrew idea imperialism is a concept that is not hard to grasp if you simple break down the words. It is really quite self-evident.

I grasp that you are refusing to understand it because, as I say, your will is set not to.

But I hope that others reading here do understand and I think they do.

This saying encapsulates the idea imperialism I refer to:
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Christianity

Post by Immanuel Can »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:23 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:15 pm And you haven't twitched one finger to try to show the "imperialism" in the quotation, and repeatedly ignored my asking for you to do so, for one very simple reason -- it's not there. :shock: You were lying.
You will need to first show that you can grasp what Occidental paideia is.
No, I will not "need" to do anything. It was your term, yours to define.

Squid.
This saying encapsulates the idea imperialism I refer to:
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
Again, I say, "Where?" And you've got nothing.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Immanuel wrote: It was your term, yours to define.
This is my definition:
Paideia: (also spelled paedeia) (/paɪˈdeɪə/; Greek: παιδεία) referred to the rearing and education of the ideal member of the ancient Greek polis or state. These educational ideals later spread to the Greco-Roman world at large, and were called humanitas in Latin. Paideia was meant to instill aristocratic virtues in the young citizen men who were trained in this way. An ideal man within the polis would be well-rounded, refined in intellect, morals, and physicality, so training of both the body and mind was important. Both practical, subject-based schooling as well as a focus upon the socialization of individuals within the aristocratic order of the polis were a part of this training. The practical aspects of paideia included subjects within the modern designation of the liberal arts (e.g. rhetoric, grammar, and philosophy), as well as scientific disciplines like arithmetic and medicine. Gymnastics and wrestling were valued for their effect on the body alongside the moral education which was imparted by the study of music, poetry, and philosophy. This approach to the rearing of a well-rounded Greek male was common to the Greek-speaking world, with the exception of Sparta where agoge was practiced.
It is not that hard, Immanuel. Do you understand the definition? Can you get it without further help?
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Immanuel: Again, I say, "Where?" And you've got nothing.
When -- actually if! -- this simple issue is resolved:

Will you be able to understand the definition of paideia offered?

Once you do, I will then, and with tremendous resolution, explain to you why
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
Is an emblematic example of what I call Hebrew Idea Imperialism.

My prediction? You will not move beyond this point through force of will. To do so will admit the validity of the ideas introduced in the definition provided and you will not allow that to happen at any cost.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Christianity

Post by Immanuel Can »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:16 pm Will you be able to understand the definition of paideia offered?
You're so silly. I already know what "paidiea" means, all the way down to the Greek.

What nobody knows is what you mean by "Occidental paidiea," which you will not say because either you were totally bluffing, or because you're ashamed to own your own beliefs in public.
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
Is an emblematic example of what I call Hebrew Idea Imperialism.

My prediction? You will not move beyond this point through force of will.
My prediction? You will never provide an answer, because you cannot.

You tried to fake it, and I didn't buy your line, and you've got nothing but the line.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:06 pm You're so silly. I already know what "paidiea" means, all the way down to the Greek.
Excellent! Then we shall now establish that the definition I offered is a sound one for our purposes. You have done extraordinary work here today!

Let this be heretofore registered that Immanuel understands what Occidental paideia refers to and that the paragraph definition I submitted is the working one as we go forward.

That is the definition I use when I refer to the word. And the better exponent of the idea and the cultural (and pedagogic notion) is best expressed (at least to my knowledge) by Werner Jaeger in his 3-volume work.

Yay! I'm so happy.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
Is an emblematic example of what I call Hebrew Idea Imperialism.

It is just one among many such assertions which originate in the Hebrew Bible and which establish the Hebrew god as the true and only valid god-concept. The idea is arch-imperialistic. But let me clarify: I refer to 'the world of ideas' and especially theological ideas of supremacy:
im·pe·ri·al·ism (ĭm-pîr′ē-ə-lĭz′əm)
n.
1. The extension of a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political dominance over other nations.

2. A political doctrine or system promoting such extension of authority.
Here is a definition of idea, you dolt, so that there is no confusion!
1. Something, such as a thought or conception, that is the product of mental activity.
2. An opinion, conviction, or principle.
Synonyms: idea, thought, notion, concept, conception

These nouns refer to what is formed or represented in the mind as the product of mental activity. Idea has the widest range: "Human history is in essence a history of ideas" (H.G. Wells).

Thought is distinctively intellectual and stresses contemplation and reasoning: She gathered her thoughts before she spoke. Notion suggests an often intuitive idea or image conceived by the mind: "All that came to mind was a notion of galactic space, of spirals, the Horse Nebula, all of which were distant and mysterious and cold" (Craig Nova).

Concept and conception are applied to mental formulations on a broad scale: You seem to have absolutely no concept of time. "Every succeeding scientific discovery makes greater nonsense of old-time conceptions of sovereignty" (Anthony Eden).
Do you see what I am doing here, Immanuel? Are you sure? If you have any confusion let me know.

I am now going to combine the designation Hebrew with Idea + Imperialism.

It is a way to express how the power of an idea or a concept is wielded as a tool to control and dominate other minds. Perhaps minds less developed? Perhaps minds less acute? The idea of 'imperial' implies a power-dynamic. Have you been able to register this?

The notion of the Hebrews having been 'chosen' by god, when no god actually did chose them and their own priest-class made ALL THESE ASSERTIONS and then wielded them as idea-imperialism against other peoples, denigrating their god-concepts, stating that they are false, and also working to destroy them .... that is what I have been talking about.

That, you sublime idiot, is what Hebrew Idea Imperialism refers to. And here it is quintessentially expressed:
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me."
Any questions?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Christianity

Post by Immanuel Can »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:17 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:06 pm You're so silly. I already know what "paidiea" means, all the way down to the Greek.
Excellent! Then we shall now establish that the definition I offered is a sound one for our purposes.
No, you haven't said a darn thing.

You've not "established" whatever it is you mean by "paideia," far less by your alleged "Occidental" sort. You've just tried to fob it off on Jaeger and Wiki. And meanwhile, you haven't answered my other question.

I find it quite absurd that you pretend to think you've said something. You know you haven't. I know you haven't. And any onlooker can see you haven't. You've just ducked out again.

Since you're fooling nobody, maybe you shouldn't try.
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iambiguous
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Re: Christianity

Post by iambiguous »

iambiguous wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:51 pmNo, what he refuses to do is to actually respond to the points I make repeatedly. Bringing his theoretical contraptions down out of the didactic/pedantic clouds.

Is he a racist? Is he sympathetic with those who walk his talk more or less in the general vicinity of the Nazis? Would black and brown and red folks have anything to be concerned about if the "demographic crisis" was resolved to his own satisfaction?
Of course: just more of the same making it all about me psychobabble:
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:11 pmMy assessment of you is that you are *intellectually neurotic*. You are fixated on a specific approach and you are certain that your approach is the right one. You keep insisting (like a broken record) that I do your bidding. And you imply that there is something wrong with the way I approach these topics and issues.

I can only politely suggest that you modify your obsession.
This instead of at least attempting to bring his "theoretical" views on race and gender and homosexuality and Jews down out of the clouds and exploring "what is to be done?" about the "demographic crisis" faced by the Northern European white stock.

That's all that I am "fixated" on here. And that is because over and again I make it abundantly clear that my own interest in philosophy revolves around connecting the dots existentially between words and worlds. Whereas, in my own personal opinion, AJ is fixated only on providing us with walls of words -- worlds of words -- that expose the extent to which being the didactic pedant is what it is really all about for him.

And, again, no problem. He will always find other "serious philosophers" who will go up there with him. The "slower" approach. Let others walk his talk politically. He'll join them...later.
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iambiguous
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Re: Christianity

Post by iambiguous »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:42 pm
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
Hey, me too!

Show us the Christian God. Demonstrate to us that He and not any of the many, many other alleged Gods does in fact exist.

That'll be enough for me.

But don't expect me to believe that He does exist just because you quote from the Christian Bible that He does. And this being the case you assure us because it is the Word of the Christian God. And it must be the Word of the Christian God because it says so right there in the Christian Bible.

I challenge others here to resist further discussions with him until he can in fact demonstrate that his own God is, in fact, the God.

Those videos, for example...
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