Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:25 pm
RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:54 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:11 pm
I cannot imagine any other way they
could have it.
There's not much I can do about your intellectual deficiencies. If you can't understand (or imagine?) it, then you can't.
Hmmm.
Well, you can't seem to find a way to say what you actually mean, so what you mean must remain opaque. So be it.
Apparently, nobody can cure you of the
ad hominem fallacy either. Carry on.
I wasn't making an argument. How can it be a fallacy? Oh well.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:11 pm
... As you know, I'm no Determinist, nor am I any kind of Collectivist. "Human nature," I think, is a concept that applies to broad inclinations and instincts all humans have in common, not something determinative of specific choices of individuals.
Human behavior is not determined, you say, but have, "
broad inclinations and instincts," that,
what?. [/quote]
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:25 pm
My cats have a common broad inclination to hunt. But one hunts bugs, and the other chooses not to. They're free agents, but also have the basic cat nature. Do you think they're not cats?
What one chooses, and what one's natural inclinations are, are two very different questions. Human nature has to do with capabilities, inclinations and propensities, but does not strictly dictate particular choices on particular occasions.
I really do not know how to address that comment. The irrational animals do not have volition, which is why they do not need verbal knowledge to think and make choices with and why they have instinct to determine all their behavior. Only human beings have volition, which is why they need verbal knowledge to think and make choices and do not have instinct to guide their behavior. It is the fundamental difference between human beings and all other animals.
This obviously all escapes you. There is no way I can address the confusion you entertain between animal and human nature.
You think every kind of evil is also rational.
You can't give me even one moral precept that is dictated by reason
qua reason. You'll have to take an assumption first, or reason will remain silent on the matter.[/quote]
There is no such thing as a, "moral precept." Values are not pronounced or determine by some dictator. A value is determined by some objective or purpose relative to which is either good (if it furthers or fulfills the purpose) or bad (if it hinders or prevents it).
Since the only beings in the universe that have purposes (ends, goals, or objectives), values only pertain to human beings. Right values are those that enable a human to live happily and successfully in this world as a volitional, intellectual, rational being.
Here are three essential values:
1. Learning and gaining knowledge is the first value. A human being must learn all he can possibly learn about as many things as he possibly can.
2. Reasoning correctly is the second value. A human being must learn to think and use his knowledge to reason as well as he can to make right choices in every pursuit of his life.
3. Productive work is the third value. A human must do productive work to provide himself with all that he needs or desires to live successfully as a human being. His work is whatever he does to provide a service or product of value to himself, or others he can trade with for what they have produced or provided.
There are no guarantees in life, but failing to live by these three values ensures failure.
If there were such a thing as morality, these would be three moral precepts.
There are many other values.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:11 pm
If everyone just ignored the, "unscrupulous," and went about living their own lives, the unscrupulous would be able to do nothing.
That's manifestly untrue.
It's like saying, "If everyone ignored thieves, they couldn't steal," or "If everybody ignored murderers, they couldn't kill anyone." Of course they could.
We were talking about Tyrants ruling whole countries (wholesale crime), not individual thugs (retail crime). If
everyone just ignored Biden, exactly what could he do. Nothing. The reason there are tyrants is because most people have ulterior motives for supporting, or at least, tolerating them. They will never ignore them and therefore will continue to be ruled by them.