Christianity

[henry quirk]

God vs Evil

Free will is double-edged. A man chooses. We hope he'll choose right, but, truth is, sometimes he'll choose wrong.

God, bein' good, we want Him to obliterate wrong. God, bein' merciful, we want Him to alleviate the consequences of wrong.

He does neither.

Can He?

Yes.

Should He?

No.

Why?

In obliterating and alleviating He would steal man's choice.

Self-direction and the possibility of self-responsibility: without them, man is rendered into event.

Love, and the choice it entails, ceases.

Hatred, which is not always wrong, is nullified.

Man becomes machine and that is neither good or merciful.

[Immanuel Can]

...without them, man is rendered into event.

Nice turn of phrase.

[Sculptor]

Christianity
Britain used to refer to itself as a Christian country.
There seems to be little agreement as to what we are today.
In modern terms:
Christianity is not about simple freedom of the individual will.
Christianity is not about simple obedience to moral codes.
Christianity is about informed conformity to altruist values.
Human and other rights and duties are legal constructs based on values.

Christianity is all of those things and none of them.
It is a hodge podge of diverse, contradictions.
It's time to grow up and drop it.

[Sculptor]

God vs Evil

Free will is double-edged. A man chooses. We hope he'll choose right, but, truth is, sometimes he'll choose wrong.

Simple ideas for a simple mind.

How far does this stand up to scrutiny?

[henry quirk]

God vs Evil

Free will is double-edged. A man chooses. We hope he'll choose right, but, truth is, sometimes he'll choose wrong.

Simple ideas for a simple mind.

How far does this stand up to scrutiny?

scrutinize it and find out

[Sculptor]

God vs Evil

Free will is double-edged. A man chooses. We hope he'll choose right, but, truth is, sometimes he'll choose wrong.

Simple ideas for a simple mind.

How far does this stand up to scrutiny?

scrutinize it and find out

Was the invasion of Afghanistan "good"?

[henry quirk]

Simple ideas for a simple mind.

How far does this stand up to scrutiny?

scrutinize it and find out

Was the invasion of Afghanistan "good"?

nope

[Sculptor]

scrutinize it and find out

Was the invasion of Afghanistan "good"?

nope

Was it evil?

[Alexis Jacobi]

Science is the study of phenomena: observing, measuring and prediction.

...Sure, within the realm to which science and measurement devote themselves.

What is measurable that science can't measure?

That is not quite the right question, at least for me to answer. The question is What lies outside of the capacity of science to measure?

And I think the answer is meaning. The meaning of something -- an event, a relationship, an occurrence. How is it that things are determined by as to have meaning, the be meaningful -- I think that is one area in which 'science measurement' and the methods of science has no way of addressing.

What life is, why life is, why I have this life, why I am alive and perceive, and of course what I believe, feel and determine I must do with this life -- these are obviously questions that the typical science we are all familiar with declines to answer. It is not in its domain to answer.

[Sculptor]

...Sure, within the realm to which science and measurement devote themselves.

What is measurable that science can't measure?

That is not quite the right question, at least for me to answer. The question is What lies outside of the capacity of science to measure?

And I think the answer is meaning. The meaning of something -- an event, a relationship, an occurrence. How is it that things are determined by as to have meaning, the be meaningful -- I think that is one area in which 'science measurement' and the methods of science has no way of addressing.

What life is, why life is, why I have this life, why I am alive and perceive, and of course what I believe, feel and determine I must do with this life -- these are obviously questions that the typical science we are all familiar with declines to answer. It is not in its domain to answer.

You can ask empty quesions till you are blue in the face and then one day you die never knowing there aint no answer.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Well done you. So what is science?

I have learned that it is unwise to respond to the incessant questioning mode. What I would appreciate from you would be that you take the time -- your own time -- to write out careful responses in relation to specific elements in this on-going conversation.

And I also think that you should answer your own question, which I think is what you desire to do.

[henry quirk]

Was the invasion of Afghanistan "good"?

nope

Was it evil?

yep

[Alexis Jacobi]

You can ask empty questions till you are blue in the face and then one day you die never knowing there ain't no answer.

In some sense I agree with you. But that is because I do recognize that we, as instruments of perception, are not sufficient to the task -- but here I qualify this by saying 'in an absolute sense'. What I mean is that we are imperfect instruments, fallible instruments. I believe that we need to know this . . . and examine our certainties, or lack of them, in that light.

I base my own understanding (in relation to the questions I do ask and when *meaning* is considered)(and I certainly recognize *meaning* as a key element in my own life and view) on what I refer to as intimations.

And I will also say that as I conceive of Holy Spirit (the means through which higher orders of intelligence can and do communicate with us) is essentially through intimation. The instrument of our self has to be willing to receive. Also it may have to *give permission*.

[Latin intimāre, intimāt-, to make known, from intimus, innermost; see en in Indo-European roots.]

1. A subtle pointing out:
clue, cue, hint, suggestion.

My view is that the most subtle of men (people) are those who work within this realm. So for this reason I do not and cannot dismiss the poets who, it seems to me, operate in realms of intimation, intuition, inner sense -- meaning in the sense I brought to Uwot's attention.

The other aspect of my own view is that spiritual and religious life is a sort of tuning-in to what is intimated. But how can this be explained to someone (some other person) who does not approach life in this way?

I see *good theology* in this sense as the outcome of sound reasoning on those themes which are intimated as being true.

[Sculptor]

nope

Was it evil?

yep

You paid for it.
Are the AMericans that thought it was a good idea evil?

[henry quirk]

Was it evil?

yep

You paid for it.
Are the AMericans that thought it was a good idea evil?

don't I know it!

those who naively thought it was a legit up-lift: no

those who knew it was just a profit-makin' venture: yes