Christianity

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Age
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Re: Christianity

Post by Age »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:40 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:35 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:31 pm

I don't think matters having to do with supposed spirits, divinities or an afterlife are anything I can rationally deduce from any sort of evidence in this world. I can interpret my experiences in various ways and if I approach it rationally, then I have to say that I've never come across anything indicating that such things exist and even if a voice came out of the blue and said, "I am God", then I don't see how I could be sure that it is in fact God or which God it in fact is, because my first thought is how could any divinity or spirit possibly approach me that I couldn't second guess myself later and say, "was it a dream? Did I have a psychotic episode? Is it in fact the being that created everything?" I mean, I don't know how I could rationally tell one way or the other if I gave it further reflection.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yes, I would agree with that - a single sentance "I am God" would not convince me. Why have you ditched believing in the life of Christ?
I suspect Christ might have been an ordinary person who had an incredibly intense mystical experience.
When, EXACTLY, do you suspect the human being known
as "jesus christ" here had a so-called 'mystical experience'?
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:40 pm That isn't to say that he wasn't right about many things or made good sense in many ways. I'm just not sure he was the creator of the whole universe as alleged in the Bible.
Where, EXACTLY, is it written in the Bible that the one known as "jesus christ" created the WHOLE Universe?
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:40 pmPerhaps he was referring to what other mystics not too far away from his neck of the woods would call brahman or atman or something.

NOTE: I'm not necessarily buying into the notion of brahman or atman being the way things are either. They could be wrong too. But I'm more inclined to think that all cultures have some kind of contact with whatever it is that mystics experience. How a person interprets that experience could just be a matter of picking up learned cultural beliefs and applying them to what mystics otherwise typically say is ineffable or unable to be described with words. Apparently, words distort the experience. However, mystics typically want to convey their experience to others and how to have that experience. So words or mimicking actions of the mystic are sometimes necessary even though the experience itself is (apparently) ineffable.
But NO 'experience' is so-called 'ineffable'.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

::: raises hand :::

[Gravely, imperiously] “Yes?” [As if speaking to A WORM.]
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus 'threefold') is the central doctrine concerning the nature of God in most Christian churches, which defines one God existing in three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial divine persons: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit, three distinct persons sharing one homoousion (essence).
Dubious
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Re: Christianity

Post by Dubious »

seeds wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:12 pm
Dubious wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:33 pm Why say Xmas instead of Christmas. Why would that and Xianity be so Greek to us since so much of our vocabulary, especially in philosophy and religion, is of Greek origin?
Did you mean to say "...why [not] say Xmas instead of Christmas..."? Because that would have made the next sentence make more sense.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall reading or hearing that the original intent of using the letter X in Xmas (and Xianity, etc.) was that it was meant to be a shorthand representation of the Christian cross...

Image

However, part of my beef with atto is that it's annoyingly ironic (make that hypocritical) to hear him say this to you...
attofishpi wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:39 pm Well, I remember when I was a little tacker my Mum complaining about people writing Xmas on Christmas cards, it IS disrespectful.
...after hearing him constantly calling the most sacred text in all of Christianity, indeed, the very text from which Christianity is derived...
...the "buy bull".

In deference to the old adage having to do with it not being advisable to wrestle with pigs...

(something to do with getting oneself all dirty while the pigs enjoy it)

...I would normally simply ignore his insults (like when he, for no logical reason in this same thread, called me a "racist k..t").

However, there comes a point when nasty bullies need to be confronted.
_______
To avoid any misunderstanding, I wouldn't use the X symbol for either term, instead referring to them in the usual way, not least because most people wouldn't know what is referred to in pronouncing Xianity. The X in both terms refers explicitly to Christ in its first three letters and not the Cross in its historical context.

In effect, there is nothing in the least disreputable in X, as a Greek abbreviation, being identified as an acceptable representation of the word, Christ. It's been used as such since the 1500s!

I'm sure the church would have vehemently objected had there been any disrespect or distortion implied, resulting in a possible appointment with the Inquisition!

-------------------

Responses, coming from whoever, which I find null and void, signifying nothing, I now simply ignore...most of the time. It doesn't imply that I'd forgo a response to something I disagree with when what is discussed are the differences on a subject common and of interest to both parties.
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attofishpi
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Re: Christianity

Post by attofishpi »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:23 pm
seeds wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:12 pm However, there comes a point when nasty bullies need to be confronted.
I got this one, Seeds. Because of my immense moral power it falls to me to chastise ole Atto.

Atto? You there? Bad, BAD you have been. Jesus the Christ has instructed me to put a stop to this. If you will not HEED you will be made to feel.

Also, not only are you *tipsy* after a few potent beers, you are romantically intoxicated which was revealed in your shallow impressions of India.

I undertake this needed chastisement of your excessive naughtiness in true Christian love ❤️

Deus vult, mi muchacho, DEUS VULT.
God Y are Americans so precious and easily offended? Seeds is pissed off with me because he believes I called him a moron, when clearly I didn't.

Funny, as I read "Jesus Christ has instructed me..." - I was tapped heavily on my left shoulder (as in NOT right)..pretty certain God is on my side, some people around here truly need to WISE UP when it comes to God, and love of wisdom.

Onto a more odd development where again I get rather subtle criticism, where am I "shallow in my impressions of India"?

I have only provided a couple of short takes on India here, I haven't gone into great depth but captured what I thought were the key ingredients to being happy in the hope that so many miserable gits around here might consider.
Dubious
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Re: Christianity

Post by Dubious »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 12:23 am ::: raises hand :::

[Gravely, imperiously] “Yes?” [As if speaking to A WORM.]
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus 'threefold') is the central doctrine concerning the nature of God in most Christian churches, which defines one God existing in three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial divine persons: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit, three distinct persons sharing one homoousion (essence).
Based on its actual historical development, Jesus appears as a nonentity, or nearly so, who, by the application of many levels of institutionalized metaphors reified throughout the following centuries, has been resurrected as a god indispensable to the institution which created him.

Jesus is often mentioned as the most important person in history. What a travesty!

Had that essential and gradual transmutation of bronze into gold not happened, he would, based on his own merits, have remained as another failed Jewish preacher of no consequence.
Gary Childress
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Re: Christianity

Post by Gary Childress »

Age wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:19 pm you claim that 'agnoticism' IS 'the way to', as you call 'it'. And, if 'agnoticism' is NOT the ONLY 'way to go', as you claimed here, then what OTHER 'way/s' are there, which could and would GO WITH, or FIT IN WITH, 'agnoticism', as your 'way to go'?
Agnosticism is my preference. One can also be a theist (of any one of many different 'flavors') or an atheist. I don't see where agnosticism should bother anyone except those who insist that their god hates people that don't believe in him or her. I'm not going to push agnosticism on anyone other than to say it seems like the most rational way to approach divinity to me. But if others want to believe in divinities, then I'm not going to proverbially "lose sleep over it." That's their business.
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attofishpi
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Re: Christianity

Post by attofishpi »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:19 am
Age wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:19 pm you claim that 'agnoticism' IS 'the way to', as you call 'it'. And, if 'agnoticism' is NOT the ONLY 'way to go', as you claimed here, then what OTHER 'way/s' are there, which could and would GO WITH, or FIT IN WITH, 'agnoticism', as your 'way to go'?
Agnosticism is my preference. One can also be a theist (of any one of many different 'flavors') or an atheist. I don't see where agnosticism should bother anyone except those who insist that their god hates people that don't believe in him or her. I'm not going to push agnosticism on anyone other than to say it seems like the most rational way to approach divinity to me. But if others want to believe in divinities, then I'm not going to proverbially "lose sleep over it." That's their business.
The only criticism I have is that you stated you are going to make the rest of your life quest to seek the truth. (there are plenty of Sikhs around here also trying to do that :wink: ) So where within a reality that God exists and has advised faith in it's possible existence is required for IT to provide personal revelation...well, agnosticism isn't such a wise position.
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Re: Christianity

Post by Gary Childress »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:47 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:19 am
Age wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:19 pm you claim that 'agnoticism' IS 'the way to', as you call 'it'. And, if 'agnoticism' is NOT the ONLY 'way to go', as you claimed here, then what OTHER 'way/s' are there, which could and would GO WITH, or FIT IN WITH, 'agnoticism', as your 'way to go'?
Agnosticism is my preference. One can also be a theist (of any one of many different 'flavors') or an atheist. I don't see where agnosticism should bother anyone except those who insist that their god hates people that don't believe in him or her. I'm not going to push agnosticism on anyone other than to say it seems like the most rational way to approach divinity to me. But if others want to believe in divinities, then I'm not going to proverbially "lose sleep over it." That's their business.
The only criticism I have is that you stated you are going to make the rest of your life quest to seek the truth. (there are plenty of Sikhs around here also trying to do that :wink: ) So where within a reality that God exists and has advised faith in it's possible existence is required for IT to provide personal revelation...well, agnosticism isn't such a wise position.
Like I say, I'm pretty skeptical of God being a "personal" God who grants favors or else curses or whatever. A lot of people on Earth seem to suffer regardless of what religion they practice so I see little reason to think that anyone's version of God looks out for those who believe in it or does otherwise for those who don't. Also, the universe is a big place and if God didn't create the universe, then something else must have created the universe, in which case, should we be worshiping the creator of the universe or just the creator of Earth? And if the God of the Earth is just one of many gods (one for each planet or whatever) then will we have to switch gods if we go to Mars? Or when we leave our solar system do we have to switch to the local god of the next solar system we encounter? How does that work?
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Re: Christianity

Post by seeds »

Dubious wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:39 am To avoid any misunderstanding, I wouldn't use the X symbol for either term,...
Agreed. And neither would I.
Dubious wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:39 am In effect, there is nothing in the least disreputable in X, as a Greek abbreviation, being identified as an acceptable representation of the word, Christ. It's been used as such since the 1500s!
I was unaware of the Greek interpretation of X. Or, if I had come across it in my studies, it had no staying power in my aging brain.

Anyway, thanks for the information.
Dubious wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:39 am Responses, coming from whoever, which I find null and void, signifying nothing, I now simply ignore...most of the time...
Yeah, me too -- "most of the time."

However, sometimes I just get fed up with vulgar hypocrites.

Besides, the sadomasochistic atto has been asking for people to throw some "slagging" his way, and unfortunately, Lacewing, who usually doles-out the satisfying tongue lashings to the asylum's troublesome inmates, is on sabbatical.
_______
Age
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Re: Christianity

Post by Age »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:19 am
Age wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:19 pm you claim that 'agnoticism' IS 'the way to', as you call 'it'. And, if 'agnoticism' is NOT the ONLY 'way to go', as you claimed here, then what OTHER 'way/s' are there, which could and would GO WITH, or FIT IN WITH, 'agnoticism', as your 'way to go'?
Agnosticism is my preference. One can also be a theist (of any one of many different 'flavors') or an atheist. I don't see where agnosticism should bother anyone except those who insist that their god hates people that don't believe in him or her.
WHERE has it EVER been claimed that God hates people?
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:19 am I'm not going to push agnosticism on anyone other than to say it seems like the most rational way to approach divinity to me. But if others want to believe in divinities, then I'm not going to proverbially "lose sleep over it." That's their business.
Okay, but you are here just MISSING what I am asking for, or just DEFLECTING.

I will try again, if 'agnoticism' is 'the way to go', for you, and 'agnoticism' is NOT the ONLY 'way, to go', then what OTHER 'thing' could go WITH 'agnoticism'?
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Re: Christianity

Post by attofishpi »

seeds wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:35 am
Dubious wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:39 am To avoid any misunderstanding, I wouldn't use the X symbol for either term,...
Agreed. And neither would I.
Dubious wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:39 am In effect, there is nothing in the least disreputable in X, as a Greek abbreviation, being identified as an acceptable representation of the word, Christ. It's been used as such since the 1500s!
I was unaware of the Greek interpretation of X. Or, if I had come across it in my studies, it had no staying power in my aging brain.

Anyway, thanks for the information.
We are on an English speaking forum, surely Christianity reads better than Xianity and only takes an extra five key presses. Still not sure how Xianity is pronounced, perhaps I need to live in Greece, learn Greek and find a forum there to discuss Christianity.
Age
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Re: Christianity

Post by Age »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:50 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:11 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:40 pm

I suspect Christ might have been an ordinary person who had an incredibly intense mystical experience. That isn't to say that he wasn't right about many things or made good sense in many ways. I'm just not sure he was the creator of the whole universe as alleged in the Bible. Perhaps he was brahman or atman or something.
It doesn't state anywhere in the Bible that God or indeed Christ created the 'whole universe'.

Do you honestly think a man would go to a terrible form of death stating he is the Son of God if he wasn't AND all accounts of those around that scribed his life, miracles, resurrection were all making it up. (people have little faith in people - me for example on account of esoteric matters)
Well, according to the Bible, God (the father part of the trinity) created the earth and heavens. I would assume "heavens" implies everything in the sky.
Well your ASSUMPTION here IS Wrong.
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:50 pm As far as why would a man say he was God and die for it, you'd be surprised what can come out of an intense psychosis or perhaps an intense religious experience. Buddhist monks set themselves on fire (a horrible way to go) in protest of US occupation of Vietnam. I myself have had several psychoses where I thought I was facing death and, though I was convinced I was facing death, I accepted it.
Well 'you' ARE so-called 'facing death', right?

Or, do you BELIEVE 'you' are NOT going to 'die'?
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:50 pm On one occasion I can remember I took some pills thinking they were poison and that I was being put to death by my doctor for being a burden to society. I willingly took the pills and swallowed them. I was in a state of mind where I felt like I had no out or other choice and thought it was the noble or right thing to do. Much to my surprise I woke up the next morning and the delusions were gone and I once again returned to my normal state of mind (the pills were nothing more than my prescribed meds).

What is a so-called 'normal state of Mind', EXACTLY?
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:50 pm On another occasion I thought unspeakably horrible monsters were waiting outside the house for me. I started stripping off my clothes (for whatever reason) to go outside and face them, however, my folks stopped me and got me to take my meds and again I woke up the next day wondering what the heck was I thinking?
What did you find?
Age
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Re: Christianity

Post by Age »

seeds wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:46 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:02 pm It strikes me as odd that the creator of this vast universe is at all interested in one of the many creatures that sprung up on one relatively tiny rock within this seemingly infinite cosmic ocean.
First of all, to me, the fact that you find it odd that the Creator of the universe would be interested in a human is the metaphorical equivalent of finding it odd that a fully grown human woman would be interested in the embryo forming in her womb.

And secondly, try not to be overwhelmed by the size of the universe, because, in a certain sense, your own mind is just as "infinite" as you imagine the universe to be (neither of which are actually infinite).
_______
There is NO 'your Mind'

There Mind, also, like the Universe IS infinite, as ALREADY PROVED True.
Age
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Re: Christianity

Post by Age »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:56 pm
seeds wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:46 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:02 pm It strikes me as odd that the creator of this vast universe is at all interested in one of the many creatures that sprung up on one relatively tiny rock within this seemingly infinite cosmic ocean.
First of all, to me, the fact that you find it odd that the Creator of the universe would be interested in a human is the metaphorical equivalent of finding it odd that a fully grown human woman would be interested in the embryo forming in her womb.

And secondly, try not to be overwhelmed by the size of the universe, because, in a certain sense, your own mind is just as "infinite" as you imagine the universe to be (neither of which are actually infinite).
_______
Well, unless the universe is ours exclusively for the taking, then I would hope "God" hasn't set us up with competitors in other parts of it that might visit and either get in our way or push us out of the way. Otherwise, the probability that it won't be an even match is probably high and we humans don't have too great a history with respect to how we handle unfamiliar people or beings. If there's no other life in the universe, then sure, maybe we're made in God's image. If not, then maybe we're little more than pets in a divine goldfish bowl along with everything else.
But there IS, obviously, so-called 'other life'.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

attofishpi wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:51 am We are on an English speaking forum, surely Christianity reads better than Xianity and only takes an extra five key presses. Still not sure how Xianity is pronounced, perhaps I need to live in Greece, learn Greek and find a forum there to discuss Christianity.
The 'X' comes from the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter of the Greek word Christós (Greek: Χριστός, translit. Khristós, lit. "anointed, covered in oil"), which became Christ in English.
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