Christianity

[Age]

... my IRREFUTABLE Facts...

The reason your facts are irrefutable is because you won't tell anyone what they are. Which makes this all the more laughable:

LOL

That was one hell of a CLAIM here "uwot".

Do you have ANY ACTUAL PROOF for this CLAIM of yours here?

If yes, then PROVIDE IT.

ALSO, name just one thing and one time that I WILL NOT tell ANY one what those IRREFUTABLE facts are.

And, you are too SCARED and AFRAID to provide those ALLEGED and SUPPOSED questions because if you did you could be PROVED Wrong, and you would absolutely HATE that "sculptor", correct?

It's projection. Classic.

REALLY "uwot"?

Did you PROVIDE PROOF for your CLAIM above, AND name those ALLEGED times and things?

If no, then WHY NOT?

It is like each time I POINT OUT the Fact that the followers of 'scientific texts' are just like the followers of 'scriptured texts', in that they all have their own so-called "leaders" that they all each have faith and BELIEF IN, no matter it 'it' is actually true or NOT, and that this really gets you to bring out these False or Wrong CLAIMS of yours, which you NEVER have backed up NOR supported. No matter how many times I question you about them or challenge you on them.

[uwot]

...name just one thing and one time that I WILL NOT tell ANY one what those IRREFUTABLE facts are.

Well let's put it to the test. Tell us one irrefutable fact. If you fail to do so, there's your example.

[Immanuel Can]

I have thought of Job, and I don't understand how his story explains evil in the presence of good all-powerful God.

Not "evil" pe se, but suffering. They are not the same thing. Job deals with the question, "Why doesn't God make good things automatically happen to good people, and bad things happen to bad people?"

That's probably how we would arrange it, if we were asked.

But there's a problem we don't often think about: that with this strict Pavlovian regime of reward for good and punishment for evil, we would also have no free will. For it is only a situation in which rewards and punishments appear in ways unrelated to deserving that we are free to choose. Otherwise, the regime itself would keep us from ever making a choice different from the prescribed good one. Unless one can do evil and, at least in the immediate and foreseeable future, remain unpunished or even seemingly rewarded for one's efforts, then how would one ever convince oneself to choose anything but good? In other words, what would "choice" even mean, anymore?

And, on the other side, if good were immediately rewarded with the best results every time, then one would never actually choose the good...because the good would be functionally pre-chosen for one. Indeed, only when good is very likelty to go unrewarded, or even seems to come at a cost, and sometimes a terrible cost...only then is one really, freely choosing the good.

Free choice. It's a very great good. It makes possible so many goods...identity, creativity, individuality, relationships, charity, faith, loyalty, mercy, hope and love. And these are things that the world is decidedly better for, better even that a pain-free world would be.

And one more thing Job decidedly shows: being the oldest book in the Torah, it shows that mankind's complaint that God should always prevent evil is very old, and has long been known to God. He has not only not ignored the objection, He answered it first.

[Janoah]

...the absurdity about "creation from nothing"

It's not actually "absurd" merely because one finds it difficult to get one's head around.

Think of it this way. Your father, let us say, is the "cause" of your existence.

if "creation from nothing" is not absurd, then maybe you also originated from nothing, and not from mom and dad?
Or, perhaps, from the holy spirit, and mom and dad have nothing to do with it?

[Immanuel Can]

if "creation from nothing" is not absurd, then maybe you also originated from nothing, and not from mom and dad?

Ultimately, you are actually correct. Go back behind your ancestors, and then behind the universe into which they were born, and what you can know for certain you will not find is an infinite regress of causes.

Because such a thing is simply mathematically impossible. It cannot exist. It has, by definition, no starting point. It never begins.

I don't think you can get a more definitive refutation to your objection than that it is utterly mathematically impossible.

[Age]

...name just one thing and one time that I WILL NOT tell ANY one what those IRREFUTABLE facts are.

Well let's put it to the test. Tell us one irrefutable fact. If you fail to do so, there's your example.

So, you would NOT provide just one time nor thing, even though you CLAIMED they existed.

Really what is there to be so scared and afraid of?

Anyway, it was written, "Tell us one irrefutable fact".

As is PROVED True, and as such is an irrefutable fact.

[Age]

...the absurdity about "creation from nothing"

It's not actually "absurd" merely because one finds it difficult to get one's head around.

Think of it this way. Your father, let us say, is the "cause" of your existence.

if "creation from nothing" is not absurd, then maybe you also originated from nothing, and not from mom and dad?
Or, perhaps, from the holy spirit, and mom and dad have nothing to do with it?

'Creation from nothing' is obviously ABSURD, and the reason for this is because NO one has even explained how it could even be a 'possibility!, let alone it being ACTUAL 'actuality'.

Also, because one's father is obviously a cause of its child, this NO way has absolutely ANY thing supporting to do with the creation from nothing' idea.

[Age]

if "creation from nothing" is not absurd, then maybe you also originated from nothing, and not from mom and dad?

Ultimately, you are actually correct. Go back behind your ancestors, and then behind the universe into which they were born, and what you can know for certain you will not find is an infinite regress of causes.

LOL

Just how CLOSED some of these people were, in the days when this was being written, can be CLEARLY SEEN here.

And the reason WHY this one is so, OBVIOUSLY, CLOSED and BLIND here is because it ACTUALLY BELIEFS that some 'person' or 'thing' created the whole Universe, including itself, out of absolutely nothing.

And, what makes this even MORE ABSURD is it actually BELIEFS this is ABSOLUTELY TRUE on ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL other than just because this is written in some book, and because someone told them it was true.

Because such a thing is simply mathematically impossible. It cannot exist. It has, by definition, no starting point. It never begins.

Again, LOL

Just because you weak little human beings can NOT do something 'mathematical', to them, then some JUMP to the ASSUMPTION and the CONCLUSION that this then MEANS that the Universe, Itself, MUST have began. And, for those truly DISTOTED ones this then MEANS some god, some person, or some thing MUST HAVE creates the Universe.

The ABSURDITY and RIDICULOUSNESS here speaks for itself.

I don't think you can get a more definitive refutation to your objection than that it is utterly mathematically impossible.

LOL
LOL
LOL

I just love the examples of STUPIDITY that these human beings CLEARLY SHOWED, back in those truly olden days.

[Janoah]

if "creation from nothing" is not absurd, then maybe you also originated from nothing, and not from mom and dad?

Ultimately, you are actually correct. Go back behind your ancestors, and then behind the universe into which they were born, and what you can know for certain you will not find is an infinite regress of causes.

Because such a thing is simply mathematically impossible. It cannot exist. It has, by definition, no starting point. It never begins.

I don't think you can get a more definitive refutation to your objection than that it is utterly mathematically impossible.

But I'm talking about your birth, not the birth of the universe.
You were not born of mom and dad, but from nothing?
(or did you reach retirement age a few billion years ago?)

[uwot]

...name just one thing and one time that I WILL NOT tell ANY one what those IRREFUTABLE facts are.

Well let's put it to the test. Tell us one irrefutable fact. If you fail to do so, there's your example.

So, you would NOT provide just one time nor thing, even though you CLAIMED they existed.

No I didn't. I asserted that none of your nearly 9000 posts include an irrefutable fact. My evidence is those thousands of posts. You can prove me wrong by showing which of them includes an irrefutable fact.

[Immanuel Can]

But I'm talking about your birth, not the birth of the universe.

Well, that's not relevant to the question in hand, which is whether the universe had to come from an uncaused cause, or an infinite regression of a chain of causes.

The latter's impossible. So that means we have to opt for the uncaused cause explanation.

[Age]

Well let's put it to the test. Tell us one irrefutable fact. If you fail to do so, there's your example.

So, you would NOT provide just one time nor thing, even though you CLAIMED they existed.

No I didn't. I asserted that none of your nearly 9000 posts include an irrefutable fact.

And you are absolutely FREE to assert absolutely ANY thing you like. But, without ANY ACTUAL PROOF, then what you are asserting can be REALLY NOT worth even mentioning AT ALL, let alone worth LOOKING AT and considering.

My evidence is those thousands of posts. You can prove me wrong by showing which of them includes an irrefutable fact.

For starters, the LAST one I wrote to you DID.

And, if were NOT so BLIND and so CLOSED, then you would have seen and recognized this, ANOTHER, IRREFUTABLE Fact.

[Age]

But I'm talking about your birth, not the birth of the universe.

Well, that's not relevant to the question in hand, which is whether the universe had to come from an uncaused cause, or an infinite regression of a chain of causes.

The latter's impossible. So that means we have to opt for the uncaused cause explanation.

An infinite regression of included causes leads to the irrefutable conclusion and Truth that thee Universe, Itself, is thee, so-called, 'included cause', or just thee Creator, Itself.

Which NO one can refute.

[Age]

Well let's put it to the test. Tell us one irrefutable fact. If you fail to do so, there's your example.

So, you would NOT provide just one time nor thing, even though you CLAIMED they existed.

I asserted that none of your nearly 9000 posts include an irrefutable fact.

By the way, when, EXACTLY, did you, supposedly, assert this?

[Dontaskme]

Immanuel Can-not:

if "creation from nothing" is not absurd, then maybe you also originated from nothing, and not from mom and dad?
Ultimately, you are actually correct. Go back behind your ancestors, and then behind the universe into which they were born, and what you can know for certain you will not find is an infinite regress of causes.

LOL

Just how CLOSED some of these people were, in the days when this was being written, can be CLEARLY SEEN here.

In the context of NOW there is absolutely no possibility of an infinite regress of causes. There is only NOW ..which never moves or changes.

It's only ''words'' aka concepts..that 'appear' to change and move what is always this immediate..
( STILL, UNCHANGING, UNMOVING,... NOW )

Only the mind moves, not YOU. The mind is the causer of movement as it conceptualises it's reality.
As for the awareness that knows every concept, this awareness has always existed as no thing, and every thing imagined to it.

Awareness is known to awareness only. There is nothing behind or before this ''immediate'' knowing.
KNOWING is immediately and absolutely NOW...because non-existence is impossible...
..because to conceptualise non-existence is to exist. BE-cause...is infinte being...be in...in finite ...infinitely.



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