You're asking, "What's the difference between being "beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing," on the one hand, and being "beyond good and evil," on the other?
The answer is, "Not much." Both laud amorality.
You're asking, "What's the difference between being "beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing," on the one hand, and being "beyond good and evil," on the other?
Duh. As you keep insisting, we are ALL getting judged anyway!! What a stupid statement.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:22 pmHmmm...what happened to "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?
Yes, we are...but you are not the Judge. Not am I.attofishpi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:06 pm...we are ALL getting judged anyway!Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:22 pmHmmm...what happened to "Judge not, lest ye be judged"?
In contrast, do tell us about the consistency of theists. And tell us about where their wide-ranging morality comes from.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:22 pm Most Atheists are inconsistent in that way. They cling to conventional morality, even though they deny its premises.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:22 pmBut [atheists] they're inconsistent. If consistency is a virtue, they manifestly don't have it.
How has theism rationalized or excused behavior?
And you think it's different across all the varieties of theism?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:22 pmany moral precept taken beyond that is merely arbitrary and personal.
That might be to their credit, as they can be responsible for continually assessing themselves and the world around them -- whereas theists might stagnate in their rut of righteousness they've burrowed into, 'leaving it to their god' and denying all else. You can insist anything you want (as you continually do), but it's meaningless when you ignore everything to the contrary. The contrary can show you how blind you are. You could learn a lot from atheists if you weren't so righteously self-involved. Any wise god would be an atheist!
As a Christian myself, I rate you pretty shit as a Christian. I would go as far as to say unethical and showing a degree of cowardice by the way you debate with Atheists, most of whom appear to have mastered "thinking".Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:48 pmAny thinking Atheist would. (But I'm no Atheist, of course.)attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:14 pm But you admit that you would likely take full advantage (of others) no matter what the cost (had you believe there was no God watching over your actions) - as per your above statement?
..oh, that is so you (deep down it's who you are, not your fault, blame God, he made you) , except you think you are going to get some great reward and these mere atheists are going to be punished, oh the irony if you actually knew.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:48 pmHe would know that no moral constraints hang over his head, and he could not possibly miss the simple logic of, "I want it, I can get it, and when my life is over there is no more -- so what is there to prevent me from getting it, save my own cowardice?"
Did I "judge" you? or rate you? ..as a SHIT Christian.
Where is the concept '' amorality'' in deep dreamless sleep? Oh that's right, there is none, like there is no ''field''.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:07 pmYou're asking, "What's the difference between being "beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing," on the one hand, and being "beyond good and evil," on the other?
The answer is, "Not much." Both laud amorality.
Give me a particular kind of Theist. They don't all have the same answers.Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:12 pmIn contrast, do tell us about the consistency of theists. And tell us about where their morality comes from.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:22 pm Most Atheists are inconsistent in that way. They cling to conventional morality, even though they deny its premises.
To some degree, yes...we all fall short of the ideal. The natural human condition is to fall short of any goal we set for ourselves. We should all recognize that, I think.That describes HUMANS... NOT uniquely atheists!Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:22 pmBut they're inconsistent. If consistency is a virtue, they manifestly don't have it.
I think perhaps you've misunderstood what amorality means. It's not "immorality." Atheism provides no basis to judge anything as "immoral" or as "moral." That's what's meant by "amorality."How has theism rationalized or excused it?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:22 pmany moral precept taken beyond that is merely arbitrary and personal.
Of course. Go look.And you think it's different across all the varieties of theism?
By their own account, it cannot be. Nothing's "to" anybody's "credit," because "credit" implies moral categories. Atheism has none. And according to Atheism, nobody's "responsible" for anything, because there's nobody to whom one can actually be morally "responsible."That might be to their credit, as they can be responsible for continually assessing themselves and the world around them
If you're a Christian, ask the Lord. It's not my job to tell you. I don't look on people's hearts. But God does.
There is no such entity as a Christian.
But you are heartless. You would be ruthless if you didn't believe someone was watching over you. Whereas, ALL the atheists I know are decent people, thus are of a FAR better ethical standard and more worthy of Christ than you.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:48 pmIf you're a Christian, ask the Lord. It's not my job to tell you. I don't look on people's hearts. But God does.
It's a word.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:33 pmActually, it's a negation...a denial. It doesn't "construct" anything.
For me, this is not a debate about whether Christ existed or not, it is about the ethics of someone insisting they are a Christian (Immanuel Can)owl of Minerva wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:07 pm I’ve been reading the posts here and they do not appear philosophical to me. To have arrived at philosophy; a love of wisdom and at philosophical thinking; wisdom in action, requires a basic understanding of reality and acceptance of it, as we did not create it and there is nothing we can do about it.
Firstly, we live in a system of duality: opposites. Duality exists at the physical, psychic, and spiritual levels. At the psychic and spiritual levels it can be oppositional. Being oppositional is a matter of choice. The reality is that there are two sides to the equation. In the topic under discussion; to believe in a deity or not to believe in a deity. Like all opposites these two cannot be reconciled. So get used to it. Choose which side you want to relate to follow it and respect the other side.
Enough of these harangues. They are getting tedious.
Which brings us back to the issue who told you you are a christian? - who told you you have a christian name? oh that's right your mommy and daddy told you...and yet you say something stupid like ... It's not my job to tell you. So tell us, who is the ''my'' who's job is it not to tell ''you's'' ?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:48 pm
If you're a Christian, ask the Lord. It's not my job to tell you.