Christianity

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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Harbal wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:53 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:35 pm
When you say you don’t believe a word of the hard right, who are you thinking of? And what don’t you believe?
I don't care if it's the right lying about the left, or the left lying about the right, I'm sick of people using forums as a soap box. It's just a pesonal thing, it's boring, and it's annoying.
I think I get what irritates you:
Soap Box: an improvised platform used by a self-appointed, spontaneous, or informal orator.

Broadly : something that provides an outlet for delivering opinions.
But there must be a genuine way to talk about the events of the day. There are ways to talk about the Left and the Right philosophically.
Belinda
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Re: Christianity

Post by Belinda »

Harbal wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:33 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 7:08 pm
I don't resent her a bit.
I don't resent her either. For one thing; she has never tried to tell me what to do, and for another; I haven't contributed to her wealth.
I don't mind explicitly being told what to do on two conditions. One, that I have agreed with an employer or the legislature of a free country to do as I'm told. Or two, that that the instruction comes with p) a reasoned argument that I can understand or q) artistic forms that I can understand.
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Harbal
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Re: Christianity

Post by Harbal »

Belinda wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:41 am
I don't mind explicitly being told what to do on two conditions. One, that I have agreed with an employer or the legislature of a free country to do as I'm told. Or two, that that the instruction comes with p) a reasoned argument that I can understand or q) artistic forms that I can understand.
Well, I was over simplifying the situation. I can accept being told what to do when I have willingly entered into an agreement that allows for it.
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Agent Smith
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Re: Christianity

Post by Agent Smith »

RWStanding wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:23 am Christianity is about informed conformity to altruist values.
That hits the right notes as far as I'm concerned. Go Christianity, go! Res, non verba. Sorry for the last sentence. It was going so well. :(
Nick_A
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Re: Christianity

Post by Nick_A »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:04 am
Harbal wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:53 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:35 pm
When you say you don’t believe a word of the hard right, who are you thinking of? And what don’t you believe?
I don't care if it's the right lying about the left, or the left lying about the right, I'm sick of people using forums as a soap box. It's just a pesonal thing, it's boring, and it's annoying.
I think I get what irritates you:
Soap Box: an improvised platform used by a self-appointed, spontaneous, or informal orator.

Broadly : something that provides an outlet for delivering opinions.
But there must be a genuine way to talk about the events of the day. There are ways to talk about the Left and the Right philosophically.
But there must be a genuine way to talk about the events of the day. There are ways to talk about the Left and the Right philosophically


Those days are over for the majority who are now enamored with dualistic reason. The days in which the philosophical could become open to realize that both left and right are the same from a higher conscious perspective are gradually diminishing in society as a whole. Duality is the result of the effects of "la force". But who is aware of la force much less capable studying it? So be content with the eternal struggle between left and right. It is the rage of the day.

"Force is as pitiless to the man who possesses it, or thinks he does, as it is to its victims; the second it crushes, the first it intoxicates. The truth is, nobody really possesses it." Simone Weil
Belinda
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Re: Christianity

Post by Belinda »

Nick_A wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:45 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:04 am
Harbal wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:53 pm

I don't care if it's the right lying about the left, or the left lying about the right, I'm sick of people using forums as a soap box. It's just a pesonal thing, it's boring, and it's annoying.
I think I get what irritates you:
Soap Box: an improvised platform used by a self-appointed, spontaneous, or informal orator.

Broadly : something that provides an outlet for delivering opinions.
But there must be a genuine way to talk about the events of the day. There are ways to talk about the Left and the Right philosophically.
But there must be a genuine way to talk about the events of the day. There are ways to talk about the Left and the Right philosophically


Those days are over for the majority who are now enamored with dualistic reason. The days in which the philosophical could become open to realize that both left and right are the same from a higher conscious perspective are gradually diminishing in society as a whole. Duality is the result of the effects of "la force". But who is aware of la force much less capable studying it? So be content with the eternal struggle between left and right. It is the rage of the day.

"Force is as pitiless to the man who possesses it, or thinks he does, as it is to its victims; the second it crushes, the first it intoxicates. The truth is, nobody really possesses it." Simone Weil
If by "a higher consciousness perspective" you mean absolute experience such as God is said to be, then that's impossible for us who must experience only the temporal relative, world.

I agree with Simone's psychological comment in the quote you provide . This world damages victims and perpetrators.
Nick_A
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Re: Christianity

Post by Nick_A »

After 400 posts we still don't know the purpose of Christianity. For those attracted to the intellectual truths of Christianity, it requires contemplating two questions: what is Man and what is God? We don't know so prefer to argue over what we don't know about both questions. If we don't know what man is, how can we know what in him has a cosmic religious feeling which can transcend both fear and the morality of a man made personal God?
The development from a religion of fear to a moral religion is a great step in peoples lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based purely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on morality is a prejudice against which we must be on guard. the truth is that all religions are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.

Common to all types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

The individual feels the futility of human desires and aims and the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves both in nature and in the world of thought. Individual existence impresses him as a sort of prison and he want to experience the universe as a single significant whole. The beginnings of cosmic religious feeling already appear at an early stage of development, e.g., in many of the Psalms of David and in some of the Prophets. Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.

The religious geniuses of all ages have been distinguished by this kind of religious feeling, which knows no dogma and no God conceived in man's image; so that there can be no church whose central teachings are based on it. Hence it is precisely among the heretics of every age that we find men who were filled with this highest kind of religious feeling and were in many cases regarded by their contemporaries as atheists, sometimes also as saints. Looked at in this light, men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.

How can cosmic religious feeling be communicated from one person to another, if it can give rise to no definite notion of a God and no theology? In my view, it is the most important function of art and science to awaken this feeling and keep it alive in those who are receptive to it.

-- Albert Einstein, Religion and Science, NY Times, November 9, 1930.
How does the comic religious feeling relate to the purpose of Christianity? The potential Christian has experienced the futility of human desires within the context of the marvelous universal order he has yet to understand. He is aware that he needs the help of the Spirit if he is to experience "meaning." The cosmic religious feeling invites the necessary humility to receive the Spirit. But since we are filled with our own thoughts, who can consciously contemplate? Who can pray from the depth of their heart where the cosmic religious feeling originates? Only a few. But IMO without the influence of these few, the future of our species is in doubt.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Christianity

Post by Immanuel Can »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:14 pm After 400 posts we still don't know the purpose of Christianity.
Well, plausibly, it's been offered...but among the hordes of wrong ideas and bad answers, it may have gone unnoticed anyway.

Your better strategy is to research it for yourself. Otherwise, how will you recognize the right answer when you hear it?
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Christianity

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Nick_A wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:14 pm After 400 posts we still don't know the purpose of Christianity. For those attracted to the intellectual truths of Christianity, it requires contemplating two questions: what is Man and what is God? We don't know so prefer to argue over what we don't know about both questions.
If we don't know what man is, how can we know what in him has a cosmic religious feeling which can transcend both fear and the morality of a man made personal God?
This is why I raised this thread:
"Know Thyself" What does that Entail?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35481

What is God?
God is an Impossibility [to be Real]
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704

Rather, the unreal God is driven by an existential crisis;
God as a Psychological Derivative
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=35084

As Einstein stated, religion started from fear;
The development from a religion of fear ... that primitive religions are based purely on fear ... the truth is that all religions are a varying blend of both types, with this differentiation: that on the higher levels of social life the religion of morality predominates.
I shall call it cosmic religious feeling .. there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

Buddhism, as we have learned especially from the wonderful writings of Schopenhauer, contains a much stronger element of this.
-- Albert Einstein, Religion and Science, NY Times, November 9, 1930.
Regardless that religion is related to a cosmic religious feeling, it is fundamentally driven by 'fears' due to cognitive dissonances arising from an inherent existential crisis.

I believe Christianity with its overriding pacifist maxims is the most optimal [effective] religion for theists given the current phase of the majority's spiritual-religio-psychological state.
The most evil religious ideological is MALSI [read backward] as evident with the attempted murder of Salman Rushdie and all the terrible evil and violent throughout its history to the present.

Whilst Buddhism is praised by Einstein is more preferable [which I agree], Buddhism-proper is too advanced for the majority in our present phase of spiritual evolution, thus will have to be considered for the future.

In the future, we need to wean off all religions, i.e. we merely have to incorporate Buddhist fundamentals with other positive spiritual elements without any need for a specific religion.
Belinda
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Re: Christianity

Post by Belinda »

Nick quoted:
men like Democritus, Francis of Assisi, and Spinoza are closely akin to one another.
These men are like each other in being able to think holistically.
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Harbal
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Re: Christianity

Post by Harbal »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:55 am
In the future, we need to wean off all religions, i.e. we merely have to incorporate Buddhist fundamentals with other positive spiritual elements without any need for a specific religion.
Why do we have to? Am I unusual in that I don't have any inclinations towards "spirituality"? I'm not even sure what people mean by the term. Maybe I do have a sense of spirituality, but think of it as something else, I don't know. What purpose does spirituality serve in a person's life?
Belinda
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Re: Christianity

Post by Belinda »

Harbal wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:11 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:55 am
In the future, we need to wean off all religions, i.e. we merely have to incorporate Buddhist fundamentals with other positive spiritual elements without any need for a specific religion.
Why do we have to? Am I unusual in that I don't have any inclinations towards "spirituality"? I'm not even sure what people mean by the term. Maybe I do have a sense of spirituality, but think of it as something else, I don't know. What purpose does spirituality serve in a person's life?
I guess by "spirituality" Veritas means specific religious myths in the sense of those important stories people tell as emotive foundations for their moral codes. For instance the myth of Winston Churchill as the wartime hero who saved us from being overrun by Nazis is a foundation for the moral belief that Nazism is wrong.

Buddhism in its more original form is more a therapy than a religion, although understand some Buddhist sects have accumulated mythical stories. Not all Buddhists are squeaky clean look at Myanmar.
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Harbal
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Re: Christianity

Post by Harbal »

Belinda wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:00 pm I guess by "spirituality" Veritas means specific religious myths in the sense of those important stories people tell as emotive foundations for their moral codes.
I have a moral code, but I am not aware of it being based on any myth. I suppose the basis for what has now developed into my own morality was instilled into me by my social environment which, historically, may have been influenced by religious myths, but once you are in possession of a sense of morality you don't need myths to sustain it. I didn't resort to using myths as examples when my kids were growing up, but they seemed to end up with a satisfactory concept of right and wrong. Even the myths that I was aware of, which were the Bible stories all kids were told, didn't really have an influence on me. I never gave enough thought to them to draw any moral conclusions from them, and that remains the case up to this day.
Belinda wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:00 pm For instance the myth of Winston Churchill as the wartime hero who saved us from being overrun by Nazis is a foundation for the moral belief that Nazism is wrong.
I think I grew out of having heroes a long time ago, not that I can remember having any, apart from one or two guitar players in my teens. So many of our great figures from the past have been knocked off their pedestals in recent years, that it makes it difficult not to develop a scepticism about the whole idea of heroes.
Belinda
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Re: Christianity

Post by Belinda »

Harbal wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:35 pm
Belinda wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:00 pm I guess by "spirituality" Veritas means specific religious myths in the sense of those important stories people tell as emotive foundations for their moral codes.
I have a moral code, but I am not aware of it being based on any myth. I suppose the basis for what has now developed into my own morality was instilled into me by my social environment which, historically, may have been influenced by religious myths, but once you are in possession of a sense of morality you don't need myths to sustain it. I didn't resort to using myths as examples when my kids were growing up, but they seemed to end up with a satisfactory concept of right and wrong. Even the myths that I was aware of, which were the Bible stories all kids were told, didn't really have an influence on me. I never gave enough thought to them to draw any moral conclusions from them, and that remains the case up to this day.
Belinda wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:00 pm For instance the myth of Winston Churchill as the wartime hero who saved us from being overrun by Nazis is a foundation for the moral belief that Nazism is wrong.
I think I grew out of having heroes a long time ago, not that I can remember having any, apart from one or two guitar players in my teens. So many of our great figures from the past have been knocked off their pedestals in recent years, that it makes it difficult not to develop a scepticism about the whole idea of heroes.
Have you not even sort of glorified your parents or some teacher at some time in your life? Maybe your children regard you all unwittingly as a pattern for their behaviour. I can't picture what it's like to not be influenced by significant others.
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Harbal
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Re: Christianity

Post by Harbal »

Belinda wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:46 pm
Have you not even sort of glorified your parents or some teacher at some time in your life? Maybe your children regard you all unwittingly as a pattern for their behaviour. I can't picture what it's like to not be influenced by significant others.
I am bound to have been influenced by others, but I'm not consciously aware of who, and in what way. I suppose I did attribute my parents with some qualities that I in later life came to realise weren't fully deserved, but perhaps not soon enough to prevent me from being influenced to some extent. I can honestly say that I haven't glorified any of my teachers. If I have been left with any feelings about any of them, it is that I think I was let down by one or two of them. I left school and started work at 15, but had I carried on into higher education maybe someone would have had a positive effect on me.

I don't know where it came from, but in the latter part of my life I have developed a bit of a preoccupation with honesty. I suppose I am still capable of bending the truth a little bit, though, when it would simply be too embarrassing to be totally honest. :)

I would be very surprised to learn that either of my children held me up as any kind of role model.
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