Sorry! I just cannot take you seriously. Don't worry about it. It won't do you any harm.Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:14 amYou, OBVIOUSLY, can NOT back up and support your CLAIM here.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:44 amMy mistake. I thought this was a philosophy site, not a twenty questions game show.
Why would I say what I did not mean? [You do not have to answer that question--it's rhetorical.]
See, everyone who CLAIMS things like; "there are NO absolute truths" REFUTE "them self" every time they TRY TO back up and support their CLAIM.
Your CLAIM here is a SELF-REFUTING CLAIM.
.
- RCSaunders
- Posts: 4704
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
- Contact:
Re: The A=A
-
- Posts: 6801
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:55 pm
Re: The A=A
Then we don't know much. It might be a fundamental idea on which other truths are based, but I can't see how it is the truth of everything. I mean with that truth, say, we cannot know anything about bird migration. We might presume it in our arguments and evidence for whatever we know about bird migration, but that knowledge needs other stuff.
-
- Posts: 750
- Joined: Thu May 20, 2021 5:23 pm
Re: The A=A
This would be like saying that A is like A. It is nonsensical.
The Absolute Truth of everything exists outside of our intellect because thinking cannot access Reality (Truth) [for all kinds of reasons].
- RCSaunders
- Posts: 4704
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
- Contact:
Re: The A=A
"Back up and support," for whom? It's unlikely you'd understand it.Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:14 amYou, OBVIOUSLY, can NOT back up and support your CLAIM here.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:44 amMy mistake. I thought this was a philosophy site, not a twenty questions game show.
Why would I say what I did not mean? [You do not have to answer that question--it's rhetorical.]
See, everyone who CLAIMS things like; "there are NO absolute truths" REFUTE "them self" every time they TRY TO back up and support their CLAIM.
Your CLAIM here is a SELF-REFUTING CLAIM.
When I explain two bit error detection and single bit error correction for digital memory and transmission systems, some of my students just cannot understand it. All the "backing up," and, "supporting," in the world will never make them understand it, just as you cannot understand my explanation of why there is no such thing as absolute truth. Don't worry about it. It's a common short-coming.
Re: The A=A
You do NOT have to take ANY thing seriously, but when you say that what you say is true but ALSO CLAIM that it is ACTUALLY NOT, absolutely, true, then it is you who could NOT be taken seriously.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:23 amSorry! I just cannot take you seriously. Don't worry about it. It won't do you any harm.Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:14 amYou, OBVIOUSLY, can NOT back up and support your CLAIM here.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:44 am
My mistake. I thought this was a philosophy site, not a twenty questions game show.
Why would I say what I did not mean? [You do not have to answer that question--it's rhetorical.]
See, everyone who CLAIMS things like; "there are NO absolute truths" REFUTE "them self" every time they TRY TO back up and support their CLAIM.
Your CLAIM here is a SELF-REFUTING CLAIM.
Re: The A=A
LOLRCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:26 am"Back up and support," for whom? It's unlikely you'd understand it.Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:14 amYou, OBVIOUSLY, can NOT back up and support your CLAIM here.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:44 am
My mistake. I thought this was a philosophy site, not a twenty questions game show.
Why would I say what I did not mean? [You do not have to answer that question--it's rhetorical.]
See, everyone who CLAIMS things like; "there are NO absolute truths" REFUTE "them self" every time they TRY TO back up and support their CLAIM.
Your CLAIM here is a SELF-REFUTING CLAIM.
Okay. But, actually, you do NOT understand it.
When I explain two bit error detection and single bit error correction for digital memory and transmission systems, some of my students just cannot understand it. All the "backing up," and, "supporting," in the world will never make them understand it, just as you cannot understand my explanation of why there is no such thing as absolute truth. Don't worry about it. It's a common short-coming.
But you NEVER even gave AN explanation, did you?
And, I even asked you to explain the difference.
But you did NOT.
So, if this is how you "treat" your students, then there is ABSOLUTELY NO wonder WHY some students do NOT understand you.
- RCSaunders
- Posts: 4704
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
- Contact:
Re: The A=A
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps the explanation was to simple and I assumed you knew what a proposition is and what an attribute is.Age wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:05 pmLOLRCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:26 am"Back up and support," for whom? It's unlikely you'd understand it.
Okay. But, actually, you do NOT understand it.
When I explain two bit error detection and single bit error correction for digital memory and transmission systems, some of my students just cannot understand it. All the "backing up," and, "supporting," in the world will never make them understand it, just as you cannot understand my explanation of why there is no such thing as absolute truth. Don't worry about it. It's a common short-coming.
But you NEVER even gave AN explanation, did you?
And, I even asked you to explain the difference.
But you did NOT.
So, if this is how you "treat" your students, then there is ABSOLUTELY NO wonder WHY some students do NOT understand you.
What I said was:
"Truth," is the name of that attribute of all correct propositions. If what a statement (proposition) asserts is correct it is, "true," if what a statement asserts is not correct, it is false, that is, "not true." "Truth," is just the attribute that differentiates between correct and incorrect statements. There is no other kind of truth.Truth is not a thing or entity, it is an attribute and has no ontological meaning. It is strictly an epistemological concept pertaining to propositions.
Like any other attribute, truth does not exist independently of that which it is an attribute of. Just as, "long," or, "short," do not exist independently of things that are long or short (there is no absolute short or long) truth does not exist independent of the propositions truth is the attribute of (there is no absolute truth).
If you do not understand that, I'm afraid you have failed in this class.
- RCSaunders
- Posts: 4704
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
- Contact:
Re: The A=A
"Absolutely true," is redundant. A proposition is either true, or it isn't. If a proposition is less than true in any way, it is false, period.Age wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:47 amYou do NOT have to take ANY thing seriously, but when you say that what you say is true but ALSO CLAIM that it is ACTUALLY NOT, absolutely, true, then it is you who could NOT be taken seriously.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:23 amSorry! I just cannot take you seriously. Don't worry about it. It won't do you any harm.
Even if, "absolutely true," weren't absurd, it would not imply there is something called, "absolute truth." There is no such thing as truth independent of propositions.
Truth is an attribute, not a thing.
Re: The A=A
TO YOU.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:07 pm"Absolutely true," is redundant.Age wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:47 amYou do NOT have to take ANY thing seriously, but when you say that what you say is true but ALSO CLAIM that it is ACTUALLY NOT, absolutely, true, then it is you who could NOT be taken seriously.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:23 am
Sorry! I just cannot take you seriously. Don't worry about it. It won't do you any harm.
You do NOT, YET, seem to understand that this is YOUR truth ONLY, and NOT necessarily thee ACTUAL Truth AT ALL.
Unless, of course, you actually believe that what you individually or personally believe is true is irrefutably true, then you will be, literally, on your own.
Or, just partly true.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:07 pm A proposition is either true, or it isn't. If a proposition is less than true in any way, it is false, period.
If this is what YOU believe is TRUE, then that is perfectly fine. But what you BELIEVE is true does NOT necessarily MEAN that 'it' is ACTUALLY true.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:07 pm Even if, "absolutely true," weren't absurd, it would not imply there is something called, "absolute truth." There is no such thing as truth independent of propositions.
SEE, you have YET to PROVE that YOUR proposition "there is NO absolute truth" is true.
This does NOT matter. Understanding, reason, space, and time can also be said to be"not things", but to say so only DETRACTS from YOUR CLAIM that; " There is no absolute "truth" ", and does NOT prove this CLAIM and BELIEF of YOURS here.
Last edited by Age on Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The A=A
A=A is only nominally correct.
As soon as you use A to represent something real, it fails.
It fails because every thing has some uniqueness about it.
As soon as you use A to represent something real, it fails.
It fails because every thing has some uniqueness about it.
- RCSaunders
- Posts: 4704
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
- Contact:
Re: The A=A
Actually that is the point of, "A is A." It means whatever actual something is meant by A, it is that unique something and not possibly anything else. A is that A and not anything else (like B) and nothing else (like B) is that A.
"A is A," just means, "an entity is what it is and not anything else."
That is also why, "A=A," is incorrect except in math or symbolic logic. That is a totally different proposition.
- RCSaunders
- Posts: 4704
- Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:42 pm
- Contact:
Re: The A=A
Age wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:08 pmTO YOU.
You do NOT, YET, seem to understand that this is YOUR truth ONLY, and NOT necessarily thee ACTUAL Truth AT ALL.
Unless, of course, you actually believe that what you individually or personally believe is true is irrefutably true, then you will be, literally, on your own.
Or, just partly true.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:07 pm A proposition is either true, or it isn't. If a proposition is less than true in any way, it is false, period.If this is what YOU believe is TRUE, then that is perfectly fine. But what you BELIEVE is true does NOT necessarily MEAN that 'it' is ACTUALLY true.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:07 pm Even if, "absolutely true," weren't absurd, it would not imply there is something called, "absolute truth." There is no such thing as truth independent of propositions.
SEE, you have YET to PROVE that YOUR proposition "there is NO absolute truth" is true.This does NOT matter. Understanding, reason, space, and time can also be said to be"not things", but to say so only DETRACTS from YOUR CLAIM that; " There is no absolute "truth" ", and does NOT prove this CLAIM and BELIEF of YOURS here.
Only a con man tries to convince other there are, "degrees," of truth.does NOT prove?
Nobody cares whether you want to use language imprecisely or not, but it sounds silly to say, "absolute truth," as if something less the truth could be true. It's like saying this is, "absolutely empty," or, she's, "absolutley pregnant," or he's, "absolutely dead." Those kinds of expressions might be useful rhetoric in satire or political speeches, but they are still redundant. Something is either empty, pregnant, or dead, --or it not--there are no degrees. Something is either true or it isn't.
Re: The A=A
No "A is A" can be described in two ways. False or meaningless.
If A is A actually means A=A then it is false, because it is a claim of equivance. If A is A then it is an empty statement.
But that is true for everything from A - Z in an infinite series of nominations.It means whatever actual something is meant by A, it is that unique something and not possibly anything else. A is that A and not anything else (like B) and nothing else (like B) is that A.
That is also false since ANY entity can be characterised in various ways. An apple is also a fruit, as is a pear.
"A is A," just means, "an entity is what it is and not anything else."
And no that is not why A=A, since there can never be more than one unique form of A.
That is also why, "A=A," is incorrect except in math or symbolic logic. That is a totally different proposition.
Re: The A=A
Is that fair? I think not. Mud is wet and water is wet have degrees of validity.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:52 am Only a con man tries to convince other there are, "degrees," of truth.
Trump is nice; Trump is evil. They depend of context, but both are true.
Re: The A=A
TO YOU.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:52 amAge wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 9:08 pmTO YOU.
You do NOT, YET, seem to understand that this is YOUR truth ONLY, and NOT necessarily thee ACTUAL Truth AT ALL.
Unless, of course, you actually believe that what you individually or personally believe is true is irrefutably true, then you will be, literally, on your own.
Or, just partly true.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:07 pm A proposition is either true, or it isn't. If a proposition is less than true in any way, it is false, period.If this is what YOU believe is TRUE, then that is perfectly fine. But what you BELIEVE is true does NOT necessarily MEAN that 'it' is ACTUALLY true.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:07 pm Even if, "absolutely true," weren't absurd, it would not imply there is something called, "absolute truth." There is no such thing as truth independent of propositions.
SEE, you have YET to PROVE that YOUR proposition "there is NO absolute truth" is true.This does NOT matter. Understanding, reason, space, and time can also be said to be"not things", but to say so only DETRACTS from YOUR CLAIM that; " There is no absolute "truth" ", and does NOT prove this CLAIM and BELIEF of YOURS here.Only a con man tries to convince other there are, "degrees," of truth.does NOT prove?
Nobody cares whether you want to use language imprecisely or not, but it sounds silly to say, "absolute truth,"
But OBVIOUSLY what you BELIEVE is "true" is NOT necessarily true, at all, to "another". So, which one has 'the truth'?
But they are OTHER things.RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:52 am It's like saying this is, "absolutely empty," or, she's, "absolutley pregnant," or he's, "absolutely dead."
You say one thing is true, which "another" says that thing is NOT true? So, which one KNOWS and has 'the truth'?
And, it can be VERY EASILY argued that the proposition that, "there is no absolute truth" is NOT true, VERY SIMPLY by the way. So, which proposition is true, right, and correct?RCSaunders wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:52 am Those kinds of expressions might be useful rhetoric in satire or political speeches, but they are still redundant. Something is either empty, pregnant, or dead, --or it not--there are no degrees. Something is either true or it isn't.
You might say one is, while "another" might say the other is. So, which one of you two KNOWS and has 'the truth'?