Why Thinking Is Over-rated

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simplicity
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by simplicity »

RCSaunders wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:49 amI'll make it simple. Those who can think and know it is the only means to knowledge and that human life is not possible without it know that, along with knowledge, it is the most important thing there is.

You don't have to agree with that. It would be impossible to understand it without thinking.
I am not saying that thinking is not valuable nor necessary, only that people rely way too much on it.

Our intellect can only get us so far [for all kinds of reasons].
simplicity
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by simplicity »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:15 am
simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:52 am Instead of imagining, perhaps accepting what it is might serve our species better.
We can accept the weather or build a shelter.
We can accept that we shall be eaten by a predator or we can make protection.
We can accept that we die of disease or we can understand the disease and create medicine.

So, go on! Accept all you want. But people imagined the computer you are using to type and you are benefiting.
The most important thing we can do is see things as closely to the truth as is possible. That way, we can figure out what the best response should be.

Most people are too busy converting reality into their personal reality and thereby changing "what it is" into their own take on "what it is." Predictably, their responses are in error.
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Sculptor
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by Sculptor »

simplicity wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:24 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:15 am
simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:52 am Instead of imagining, perhaps accepting what it is might serve our species better.
We can accept the weather or build a shelter.
We can accept that we shall be eaten by a predator or we can make protection.
We can accept that we die of disease or we can understand the disease and create medicine.

So, go on! Accept all you want. But people imagined the computer you are using to type and you are benefiting.
The most important thing we can do is see things as closely to the truth as is possible. That way, we can figure out what the best response should be.
And that requires THINKING and not accepting.

Most people are too busy converting reality into their personal reality and thereby changing "what it is" into their own take on "what it is." Predictably, their responses are in error.
Yes, that is because people are too accepting of what they are given and do not spend the effort in thinking about things. Thinking that things could be other than what is fed to them.
simplicity
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by simplicity »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:08 pm
simplicity wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:24 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:15 am

We can accept the weather or build a shelter.
We can accept that we shall be eaten by a predator or we can make protection.
We can accept that we die of disease or we can understand the disease and create medicine.

So, go on! Accept all you want. But people imagined the computer you are using to type and you are benefiting.
simplicity wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:24 pmThe most important thing we can do is see things as closely to the truth as is possible. That way, we can figure out what the best response should be.
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:08 pmAnd that requires THINKING and not accepting.
You mis-understand, "accepting." Accepting is understanding the truth in something. IOW, let's day somebody standing right in front of you offered that they had four eyes [instead of two]. Accepting would not be that you agree/disagree, only that you understood what they said.
simplicity wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:24 pmMost people are too busy converting reality into their personal reality and thereby changing "what it is" into their own take on "what it is." Predictably, their responses are in error.
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:15 am Yes, that is because people are too accepting of what they are given and do not spend the effort in thinking about things. Thinking that things could be other than what is fed to them.
Understanding the truth of the matter is step one. Once you understand, then it's up to each individual to apply whatever skills they possess to deal with such.

The vast majority gets step one wrong and therefore have little to no chance to come up with appropriate responses.
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Sculptor
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by Sculptor »

simplicity wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:23 pm
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:08 pm
simplicity wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:24 pm




You mis-understand, "accepting." Accepting is understanding the truth in something. IOW, let's day somebody standing right in front of you offered that they had four eyes [instead of two]. Accepting would not be that you agree/disagree, only that you understood what they said.




Understanding the truth of the matter is step one. Once you understand, then it's up to each individual to apply whatever skills they possess to deal with such.

The vast majority gets step one wrong and therefore have little to no chance to come up with appropriate responses.

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Fja1
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

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simplicity wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:13 pm
Fja1 wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:22 pm
simplicity wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:34 pm
"Look out any window," was to suggest that mere observation is enough to understand the limits of our intellect.
AS IF thinking is reductible to conceptual thinking.
What's the difference? You get the idea. Again, the point is that people depend way too much on their personal reality[thinking] instead of accepting, 'what it is,' as sufficient.
There's a heap of tradition affirming this as supreme knowledge, from Lao-Tze to Socrates, Samuel Beckett in litterature etcetera, that is, humbling yourself.
Last edited by Fja1 on Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
jayjacobus
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by jayjacobus »

Fja1 wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:17 pm
simplicity wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:42 pm
Fja1 wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:32 pm

No, but you can trigger others' actions psychologically, even without much conceptual thinking. That's what the Schopenhauer book is about.
Can you imagine believing that you can actually understand another person. Most people don't have the fainted Idea of who they are!
Triggering another person might be conductive to increased understanding of them. To trigger someone, no understanding about him or her is necessary.
Schopenhauer was a pessimist.

The will of the life force is to justify itself and it does so by influencing the minds of people hoping that people wil think that it is good.

Can you and I think it is good? It depends, doesn’t it? It depends on our life experiences. There have been pluses and minuses in my life but all my experiences have improved my perspective and I can say, “Thanks for the memories.” My spirit is stronger today than at any time in the past.

You should say the same. If you don’t, you need to slap yourself.
Fja1
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by Fja1 »

jayjacobus wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:55 am
Schopenhauer was a pessimist.

The will of the life force is to justify itself and it does so by influencing the minds of people hoping that people wil think that it is good.

Can you and I think it is good? It depends, doesn’t it? It depends on our life experiences. There have been pluses and minuses in my life but all my experiences have improved my perspective and I can say, “Thanks for the memories.” My spirit is stronger today than at any time in the past.

You should say the same. If you don’t, you need to slap yourself.
There is no need to invoke Schopenhauer's pessimism. His work "Die Kunst, Recht zu behalten" is not instrumental to his prescriptive program "of the world as will and representation"; its value is intrinsic, it stands on its own, and it is not prescriptive of how one should look at life, whether or not to affirm life by dialectically "taking consciousness of" or "living the contradictions" (Heraclitus), to which both pluses and minuses are necessity.
simplicity
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

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Once you kind of "get it," is it really a good use of time and energy to attempt to garner affirmation? Do you really believe anybody cares, or should care what you think?

Over-intellectual folks need to apply some of their learning to living.
Fja1
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by Fja1 »

simplicity wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:40 pm Once you kind of "get it," is it really a good use of time and energy to attempt to garner affirmation? Do you really believe anybody cares, or should care what you think?
If you were talking to me, my remark @ jayjacobus was that not all Schopenhauer, contrary to what jayjacobus believed, is about pessimism or will or negation of life or affirmation or life.
simplicity
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by simplicity »

Fja1 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:58 pm
simplicity wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:40 pm Once you kind of "get it," is it really a good use of time and energy to attempt to garner affirmation? Do you really believe anybody cares, or should care what you think?
If you were talking to me, my remark @ jayjacobus was that not all Schopenhauer, contrary to what jayjacobus believed, is about pessimism or will or negation of life or affirmation or life.
No, this was just a general remark to anybody who following.

When you really read what most people have to say [and I would include myself], it's basically comes down to, "Agree with me! Agree with me!"

As if their unique reality has anything to do with the completely random people who happen to show up on this or any other site.
Fja1
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by Fja1 »

Fja1 wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:17 pm
simplicity wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:42 pm
Fja1 wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:32 pm

No, but you can trigger others' actions psychologically, even without much conceptual thinking. That's what the Schopenhauer book is about.
Can you imagine believing that you can actually understand another person. Most people don't have the fainted Idea of who they are!
Triggering another person might be conductive to increased understanding of them. To trigger someone, no understanding about him or her is necessary.
One word: Constructivism.
Fja1
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by Fja1 »

Fja1 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:52 am
simplicity wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:13 pm
Fja1 wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:22 pm

AS IF thinking is reductible to conceptual thinking.
What's the difference? You get the idea. Again, the point is that people depend way too much on their personal reality[thinking] instead of accepting, 'what it is,' as sufficient.
There's a heap of tradition affirming this as supreme knowledge, from Lao-Tze to Socrates, Samuel Beckett in litterature etcetera, that is, humbling yourself.
Reality is a black box?
Fja1
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by Fja1 »

Fja1 wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:33 pm
Fja1 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:52 am
simplicity wrote: Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:13 pm
What's the difference? You get the idea. Again, the point is that people depend way too much on their personal reality[thinking] instead of accepting, 'what it is,' as sufficient.
There's a heap of tradition affirming this as supreme knowledge, from Lao-Tze to Socrates, Samuel Beckett in litterature etcetera, that is, humbling yourself.
Reality is (heuristically) a black box?
Skepdick
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Re: Why Thinking Is Over-rated

Post by Skepdick »

Fja1 wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:39 pm Reality is (heuristically) a black box?
In general - it isn't. You can't re-configure the internals of a black box.

On the grayscale continuum reality (to us, humans) is a gray box but it's far closer to being a black box than a white box.

In particular - some things are black boxes. Other minds. Parts of your own mind.
Last edited by Skepdick on Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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