What is philosophy?

For all things philosophical.

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Sculptor
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Sculptor »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:52 am
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:27 am
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:18 am

I have worded this better now.
I did not read more than the first line, and am not going to bother reading anymore of it.
You are too shouty and absurd.
Your CLAIM of being 'too shouty' is your completely and utterly WRONG ASSUMPTION, as I have NOT shouted once, let alone MORE than once, to be "too shouty", and as for being able to ASCERTAIN that I am 'absurd', in just the two words of, THANK YOU, then this SHOWS and REVEALS who EXACTLY is being Truly ABSURD, and/or DISHONEST here.
At least have the decency to learn the basic conventions if you want to contribute to online fora.
Capitalisation means SHOUTING.
If you want to do emphasis use italics, bold, or underline

As to remedies concerning your absurdities. I cannot help, except to say, try and think things through before you type them.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:00 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:46 pm
Age wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:09 am In fact, I have ALREADY made it CLEAR that I am using the people in this forum as test subjects, so as to obtain and gather the ACTUAL PROOF I NEED in order to back up and support what I will write and CLAIM, somewhere else.

Getting 'you', unsuspecting human beings, to CLEARLY SHOW WHAT and HOW 'you' VIEW and BELIEVE things, from your OWN FREE perceptions and doing, is helping me TREMENDOUSLY in regards to just EXACTLY HOW the Mind and the brain ACTUALLY WORK.
Those are the words of a terrible egomaniac.
If this is what you BELIEVE and SAY, then this is EXACTLY what THIS IS, to and for 'you'. And, there is NO WAY POSSIBLE that what you said and stated here could NOT be absolutely ANY thing else, correct?
It's true because you are boasting about using other people as test subjects to acheive your own goals and only a terrible egomaniac would do that.

I'm not interested in your pointless little rants about something being true because it is believed, those are always stupid.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:00 am
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 amTo me, a 'hypothesis' is; just a GUESS or an ASSUMPTION about what could be true, or in other words; just a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation, or; a proposition made as a basis for reasoning, without any assumption of its truth, among other things.
Well done Age, that's exactly what it is.
WHAT?

That is NOT EXACTLY what a 'hypothesis' is. That is what a 'hypothesis' is, to me, and IF "others" agree with and accept this definition, for a time being, then so be it, But that is very reason WHY I CLEARLY stated and wrote, 'To me, a 'hypothesis' is; ...'.

See, what a 'thing' ACTUALLY is, is all depended on 'agreement' AND 'acceptance'. A thing is NOT necessarily, and I repeat NOT necessarily, EXACTLY what one person says 'it' is, Just like what you did above here.

That 'we' just happen to 'agree with' and 'accept' a definition, then this does NOT make 'it' EXACTLY what 'it' is. Is this FULLY understood?

If no, then again, and it, hopefully, is ALREADY KNOWN and CLEAR, by now, just ask some CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, until 'it' IS.
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:00 am
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 amWhereas, to me, 'evidence' is; the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid, or; is 'that' what backs up and supports thee ACTUAL Truth of thing or just a view of things.
Here's where you lose the plot.
If you say and BELIEVE so, then 'it' MUST BE SO, correct?
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:00 am Evidence does not only support "thee ACTUAL Truth", it supports any hypothesis that is consistent with that evidence.
I KNOW, and that is WHY I said what I ACTUALLY DID.

But you may have just MISSED or MISREAD what I said.

What I ACTUALLY SAID was; Evidence supports 'thee ACTUAL Truth of things', OR, just a view of things. And, OBVIOUSLY, a 'hypothesis' is just 'a view' of things. Therefore, 'evidence' supports ANY view, or ANY hypothesis, that is consistent with that evidence. The two go "hand-in-hand", as they say,
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:00 am Where you have competing hypotheses, you do "further investigation" to find out if you can eliminate one or other hypothesis.
I suggest if ANY one MAKES UP ANY 'hypothesis' AT ALL, then FURTHER INVESTIGATION IS NEEDED. BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY the 'hypothesis' is NOT a reflection of the ACTUAL Truth of things, YET.

Also, what you said here might help in explaining WHY you do NOT see ANY REASON for ANY 'further investigation' into the 'view' that, 'the Universe is expanding' hypothesis?

Do you KNOW of ANY other 'competing hypothesis'?

If no, then is this WHY you are happy to just keep BELIEVING that the Universe is ACTUALLY expanding?
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:00 am
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 amAlso, you do not appear to know the difference between proof and evidence.
That'll be you Age. Proof has little to do with science, being restricted to mathematics and logic: a proof is basically a tautology, 2+2=4 for example.
And what has 'science' REALLY got to do with what is ACTUALLY True? Obviously, 'science' has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Truth. 'Science' only LOOKS AT that is NOT YET KNOWN.

In case you WERE UNAWARE, I have been talking about thee ACTUAL Truth of things here.

I have also ALREADY INFORMED 'you', people, that I do NOT do GUESSES/ASSUMPTIONS/BELIEFS/THEORIES NOR HYPOTHESIS, and this is because of the VERY FACT that they are NOT necessarily about thee ACTUAL Truth of things AT ALL.
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:00 am You can prove that the things either side of the equals sign are equivalent. Because of the problem of induction, you cannot prove any scientific hypothesis; the go to example being white swans, no number of which will prove the hypothesis 'All swans are white'.
And this is a PRIME EXAMPLE of WHY I NEVER do 'hypothesis's'. They do NOT LOOK AT thee ACTUAL Truth of things.

For ANY human being to MAKE UP the HYPOTHESIS, or to MAKE the CLAIM, that "all swans are white", just SHOWS and PROVES WHY it is ALWAYS BETTER to NEVER GUESS absolutely ANY thing, BEFORE MAKING CLARIFICATION, FIRST.

Also, and according to your logic here, there is NOTHING that can PROVE the hypothesis, "The Universe is expanding".

However, there is ACTUAL PROOF that thee Universe, Itself, is NOT expanding, and did NOT begin. Which is 'what' I LOOK AT and DISCUSS.
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:00 am If you follow Popper, and face it Age, you have no idea who I'm talking about, you will accept his assertion that hypotheses can be falsified, and indeed must be vulnerable to qualify as scientific. '
ONCE AGAIN, ANOTHER PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE REASON WHY TO NEVER MAKE UP a 'hypothesis', AT ALL.

And, I do NOT 'follow' ANY human being, no matter what name they have been given or have.

Also, would it make ANY REAL DIFFERENCE if I KNEW who you were talking about or not?

That person just said some 'thing', which they ASSERT IS TRUE, which is just like ASSERTING "All swans are white" IS TRUE, but which OBVIOUS does NOT necessarily have ANY REAL reflection of what IS ACTUALLY True, Right, and Correct.

All swans are white' in this limited sense thus qualifies as a scientific statement, because one black swan will falsify it.
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:00 am
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 amTelling us that "these galaxies are, so called, "local" are being pulled together by GRAVITY", or that "those galaxies are in another cluster, which all of them are heading towards earth" is NOT saying what blue shift is evidence for.

AND, telling us that "this is part of the, so called, "general turbulence" of the Universe, as far as SOME can tell" is NOT saying what blue shift is evidence for.
Earth to Age: Yes it is.
So, to you, red shift is 'evidence' that the Universe IS EXPANDING, and, blue shift is 'evidence' that the Universe IS CONTRACTING and is being pulled together and heading towards earth, of ALL places, correct?

If this is NOT correct, then what is blue shift 'evidence' for, EXACTLY, to you?

To you;
Is blue shift 'evidence' for GRAVITY?

Is blue shift 'evidence' for GRAVITY in just a part of the Universe near earth, or for GRAVITY for ALL of the Universe?

Is blue shift 'evidence' that ALL galaxies in a particular part of the Universe are heading towards earth?

Or is blue shift 'evidence' for some 'thing' else?

And if it is, then WHAT, EXACTLY?
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:25 pm
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:00 am
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:12 amTo me, a 'hypothesis' is; just a GUESS or an ASSUMPTION about what could be true, or in other words; just a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation, or; a proposition made as a basis for reasoning, without any assumption of its truth, among other things.
Well done Age, that's exactly what it is.
WHAT?

That is NOT EXACTLY what a 'hypothesis' is. That is what a 'hypothesis' is, to me
You copy-pasted from a dictionary for most of your definition Ken.
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Lacewing
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Lacewing »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:09 am
Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:16 am What kind of mental ward are you talking about?
No particular mental ward.

I was just seeking out those who JUMP to ASSUMPTIONS or to BELIEVING, for evidence and poof, and to separate them from those who do not.

See, what can be ascertained here, from this example, is that through CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, thee ACTUAL Truth of things can actually be discovered, learned, and/or become KNOWN.
You wrote "so even if I was released from this mental ward here". What "mental ward" were you referring to?
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:25 pmThat 'we' just happen to 'agree with' and 'accept' a definition, then this does NOT make 'it' EXACTLY what 'it' is. Is this FULLY understood?
Yes Age; clever people understand that words only have meaning in context. For everyone else there's dictionaries.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:21 pm
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:25 pm
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:00 am
Well done Age, that's exactly what it is.
WHAT?

That is NOT EXACTLY what a 'hypothesis' is. That is what a 'hypothesis' is, to me
You copy-pasted from a dictionary for most of your definition Ken.
OF COURSE. WHERE do you get YOUR DEFINITIONS from, EXACTLY?

Do you just MAKE THEM UP?
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:39 pm
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:09 am
Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:16 am What kind of mental ward are you talking about?
No particular mental ward.

I was just seeking out those who JUMP to ASSUMPTIONS or to BELIEVING, for evidence and poof, and to separate them from those who do not.

See, what can be ascertained here, from this example, is that through CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, thee ACTUAL Truth of things can actually be discovered, learned, and/or become KNOWN.
You wrote "so even if I was released from this mental ward here". What "mental ward" were you referring to?
As I said, NO PARTICULAR MENTAL WARD.

I WAS just writing in a way, as I do quite frequently, to lead people to ASSUME things. So, that I can separate those, closed, ones from the Truly INTELLIGENT OPEN ones. Of which, by the way, 'you', "lacewing", are here now SHOWING a PRIME EXAMPLE of True INTELLIGENCE at its BEST. That is; 'you' are Being VERY CURIOS, and being continually INQUISITIVE, in order to find out what thee ACTUAL Truth of things REALLY IS.

And, what 'you' are doing now "lacewing" is EXACTLY what ALL of those human beings, who are labeled 'BRILLIANT MINDS', ALSO DID. That is; just REMAINED OPEN and CURIOS in order to learn more, and understand anew. Or, in other words, 'you' and "they" just did what it takes to BECOME WISER.
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:57 pm
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:25 pmThat 'we' just happen to 'agree with' and 'accept' a definition, then this does NOT make 'it' EXACTLY what 'it' is. Is this FULLY understood?
Yes Age; clever people understand that words only have meaning in context.
But that is NOT what I was saying NOR meaning.

The FACT that words only have meaning, in context, was a given, which I thought would NOT need saying at all.

You seem to have just MISSED MY POINT, once more. But anyway.
uwot wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:57 pmFor everyone else there's dictionaries.
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Lacewing
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Lacewing »

Age wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:05 am
Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:39 pm You wrote "so even if I was released from this mental ward here". What "mental ward" were you referring to?
As I said, NO PARTICULAR MENTAL WARD.

I WAS just writing in a way, as I do quite frequently, to lead people to ASSUME things.
So you weren't talking about anything actual, you were just making up a lie?
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:41 am
Age wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:05 am
Lacewing wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:39 pm You wrote "so even if I was released from this mental ward here". What "mental ward" were you referring to?
As I said, NO PARTICULAR MENTAL WARD.

I WAS just writing in a way, as I do quite frequently, to lead people to ASSUME things.
So you weren't talking about anything actual, you were just making up a lie?
It can be ASSUMED to be this, so then it is SEEN that way.

But, no. I was NOT "not talking about anything actual", and as such I was NOT "making up a lie".

And, you have gone from being Truly OPEN to now being just somewhat open. And this is BECAUSE of the ASSUMPTION, which you CLEARLY HAVE HERE.

Remember, I did even forewarn that, 'I, quite frequently, do write in a way to lead people to ASSUME things. And that I do this to sort out and separate those who are Truly OPEN from those who are NOT.
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Lacewing
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Lacewing »

Age wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:45 am
Lacewing wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:41 am
Age wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:05 am NO PARTICULAR MENTAL WARD.

I WAS just writing in a way, as I do quite frequently, to lead people to ASSUME things.
So you weren't talking about anything actual, you were just making up a lie?
It can be ASSUMED to be this, so then it is SEEN that way.

But, no. I was NOT "not talking about anything actual", and as such I was NOT "making up a lie".

And, you have gone from being Truly OPEN to now being just somewhat open. And this is BECAUSE of the ASSUMPTION, which you CLEARLY HAVE HERE.

Remember, I did even forewarn that, 'I, quite frequently, do write in a way to lead people to ASSUME things. And that I do this to sort out and separate those who are Truly OPEN from those who are NOT.
You're really full of crap, you know that?
Age
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Age »

Lacewing wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:55 am
Age wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:45 am
Lacewing wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:41 am
So you weren't talking about anything actual, you were just making up a lie?
It can be ASSUMED to be this, so then it is SEEN that way.

But, no. I was NOT "not talking about anything actual", and as such I was NOT "making up a lie".

And, you have gone from being Truly OPEN to now being just somewhat open. And this is BECAUSE of the ASSUMPTION, which you CLEARLY HAVE HERE.

Remember, I did even forewarn that, 'I, quite frequently, do write in a way to lead people to ASSUME things. And that I do this to sort out and separate those who are Truly OPEN from those who are NOT.
You're really full of crap, you know that?
From YOUR perspective, I KNOW that now.

But if ANY one Truly WANTS to ACTUALLY KNOW the POINT that I was MAKING HERE, then IF, for example, 'you', "lacewing", here just REMAINED CURIOS, then you would have just KEPT asking me CLARIFYING QUESTIONS, and then you would NOT MADE an ASSUMPTION and JUMPED to a Wrong CONCLUSION.

HOWEVER, you SHOWED that when you went to ASSUMING, this this is what then led 'you' to STOP the asking of ANY FURTHER CLARIFYING QUESTIONS.

Once one STARTS to ASSUME they know some 'thing' is true, then they STOP being CURIOS, about that 'thing', which then PREVENTS them from finding out what thee ACTUAL IS.

What 'you', "lacewing", did above, through a PERFECT EXAMPLE, was SHOW what ASSUMING actually does to the ALWAYS EXISTING Truly INTELLIGENT Being within. That is; through 'your' EXAMPLE above you REVEALED, to "others", just how quickly, just how simply, and just how easily, MAKING ASSUMPTIONS then leads one to be PREVENTED from discovering, or learning, and SEEING what thee ACTUAL Truth of things IS.

If 'you' REALLY WANT TO KNOW what I was referring to, then just REMAIN OPEN and CURIOS and ask the CLARIFYING QUESTIONS NEEDED.

See, the BEAUTY of being Truly CURIOS is one becomes Truly OPEN, and if, and when, one is Truly OPEN, then they cannot 'NOT learn'. So, then that one then continues, by "them self", to LEARN what is NEEDED in order to FIND OUT, EXACTLY, what thee ACTUAL Truth of things ARE.
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Lacewing
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by Lacewing »

Age wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:15 am If 'you' REALLY WANT TO KNOW what I was referring to, then just REMAIN OPEN and CURIOS and ask the CLARIFYING QUESTIONS NEEDED.
I already did ask those questions. And your answer was vague and stupid... because you are full of crap... and everything you write reveals that.
uwot
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Re: What is philosophy?

Post by uwot »

Age wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:09 amThe FACT that words only have meaning, in context, was a given, which I thought would NOT need saying at all.
Then why say this to FlashDangerpants:
Age wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:56 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:21 pmYou copy-pasted from a dictionary for most of your definition Ken.
OF COURSE. WHERE do you get YOUR DEFINITIONS from, EXACTLY?

Do you just MAKE THEM UP?
So do words only have meaning in context? Or do we get their meaning from dictionaries?
Age wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:09 amYou seem to have just MISSED MY POINT, once more.
Time for a clarifying question then. What is your point?
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