Alternative Globalisation

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RWStanding
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Alternative Globalisation

Post by RWStanding »

Alternative Globalisation
There is outright cultural-racial chaos, with no law or moral consensus.
There are then ethical alternatives:
Outright ‘racism’ with one or more races-cultures considered inherently superior to others.
Then there is cultural-racial anarchism on a globalised basis culminating in one human race-culture.
And against both the former, cultural-racial multiculturalism on a global basis as between nations of varying culture etc.
It is well known that the human species radiated out from Africa, and on spreading to the several continents and regions, evolved in a variety of races. In modern times this diversity has been undermined, with whole civilizations and cultures destroyed in a variety of ways. Today, with globalised mixing, this diversity is under terminal threat.
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Sculptor
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by Sculptor »

As communications increase the world gets smaller and the population gets bigger.

In all cases in the human past where this has happened it has been met by one of three things; 1,Annihiliation of one culture by another, 2, the enslavement of one culture by another, 3, or the absorbsion, integration and seemless mixing of the two cultures.

Never before in history has the pace of change been greater. And rarely before has the fourth alternative been tried; multiculturalism. This has been an abject failure. Some empires have done thins successfully, but only where one culture has ultimate power such as the Ottoman Empire which achieved racial, religious, and social cohesion, but with the ultimate threat for transgression. In some areas of the British Empire this was also achieved, but only where there was absolutely no doubt about which culture was dominant, eg India. Most other places the BE decided upon annihilation, and slavery in the early empire.

Whilst democracy allows liberal multiculturalism, it must promote integration, because multiculturalism is division, and division is conflict.
DPMartin
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by DPMartin »

RWStanding wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:57 am Alternative Globalisation
There is outright cultural-racial chaos, with no law or moral consensus.
There are then ethical alternatives:
Outright ‘racism’ with one or more races-cultures considered inherently superior to others.
Then there is cultural-racial anarchism on a globalised basis culminating in one human race-culture.
And against both the former, cultural-racial multiculturalism on a global basis as between nations of varying culture etc.
It is well known that the human species radiated out from Africa, and on spreading to the several continents and regions, evolved in a variety of races. In modern times this diversity has been undermined, with whole civilizations and cultures destroyed in a variety of ways. Today, with globalised mixing, this diversity is under terminal threat.
well if you notice there is a concerted effort to convince the world its should be under one authority. and media is a part of it in the name of "world peace" as the utopian goal.

when the reality is, there's no such thing, because this is in man's judgement of what is good and evil and the result of man's judgement is always death. its the only real power he has, to violently force his will on another.

also there's always the Jewish factor. Israel will become separatist within their own ranks, and that will spark the end.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by Immanuel Can »

DPMartin wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:57 pm well if you notice there is a concerted effort to convince the world its should be under one authority. and media is a part of it in the name of "world peace" as the utopian goal.
Those are the "optics," alright...but the endgame is the old one...power. The Globalist movement is sponsored by elitists, actually...billionaires, politicians and other megalomaniacs. "Unity" and "Socialism" are for the proles, everybody who's not in the elite; for the elite, the plan is just more elitism, more power, more scope for their own ideological experiments, to be conducted at the expense of the ordinary folks.

It was Nietzsche who said the secret behind all moralizing is nothing but "power." And he wasn't wrong -- if by "moralizing" one means human ideologies and the moralizing they sponsor. The secret is that nobody has the moral authority to justify their impositions on other people...but they sure do pretend they have it.

Ironically, the usefulness of moralizing to serve a power play is entirely derivative...that is, it utterly depends on people believing that morality X IS the real, objective morality. Otherwise, the power-play becomes too obvious and is rejected. So even the power-hungry cynics are tacitly dependent on people's ongoing belief that behind the "morality" they are being taught (whether the morality of a religion, the morality of a secular ideology, or the morality of 'common sense') is objective morality. Therefore, all victims of inauthentic moralizing are actually believers in the existence of objective morality...they just can't decide which human morality reflects it.
this is in man's judgement of what is good and evil and the result of man's judgement is always death.
Well, exactly right. At the end of the day, human beings have no way of convincing others that their morality is the right one. So they inevitably have to resort to power...and often, they don't see this as illegitimate, because they believe, "I'm ultimately right; and when my morality has had a chance to reign for awhile, the results will prove I was right all along, and I'll be justified in what I have to do right now to make it come about. For now, I have to use power; but later, the end, the utopian outcome, the blessedness-to-come, the manifest justice, the consequent happiness, will justify the means I now have to use."

Of course, in every single case in history where this has been tried, man has been proven to be wrong.
Impenitent
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by Impenitent »

history never repeats

gird your loins

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DPMartin
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by DPMartin »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:53 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:57 pm well if you notice there is a concerted effort to convince the world its should be under one authority. and media is a part of it in the name of "world peace" as the utopian goal.
Those are the "optics," alright...but the endgame is the old one...power. The Globalist movement is sponsored by elitists, actually...billionaires, politicians and other megalomaniacs. "Unity" and "Socialism" are for the proles, everybody who's not in the elite; for the elite, the plan is just more elitism, more power, more scope for their own ideological experiments, to be conducted at the expense of the ordinary folks.

It was Nietzsche who said the secret behind all moralizing is nothing but "power." And he wasn't wrong -- if by "moralizing" one means human ideologies and the moralizing they sponsor. The secret is that nobody has the moral authority to justify their impositions on other people...but they sure do pretend they have it.

Ironically, the usefulness of moralizing to serve a power play is entirely derivative...that is, it utterly depends on people believing that morality X IS the real, objective morality. Otherwise, the power-play becomes too obvious and is rejected. So even the power-hungry cynics are tacitly dependent on people's ongoing belief that behind the "morality" they are being taught (whether the morality of a religion, the morality of a secular ideology, or the morality of 'common sense') is objective morality. Therefore, all victims of inauthentic moralizing are actually believers in the existence of objective morality...they just can't decide which human morality reflects it.
this is in man's judgement of what is good and evil and the result of man's judgement is always death.
Well, exactly right. At the end of the day, human beings have no way of convincing others that their morality is the right one. So they inevitably have to resort to power...and often, they don't see this as illegitimate, because they believe, "I'm ultimately right; and when my morality has had a chance to reign for awhile, the results will prove I was right all along, and I'll be justified in what I have to do right now to make it come about. For now, I have to use power; but later, the end, the utopian outcome, the blessedness-to-come, the manifest justice, the consequent happiness, will justify the means I now have to use."

Of course, in every single case in history where this has been tried, man has been proven to be wrong.
this is the case through out man's history, thing is, is it evil? I do believe you're viewed as a theist here, one might think why in God's wisdom, is it like as you describe?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by Immanuel Can »

DPMartin wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:50 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:53 pm
DPMartin wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:57 pm well if you notice there is a concerted effort to convince the world its should be under one authority. and media is a part of it in the name of "world peace" as the utopian goal.
Those are the "optics," alright...but the endgame is the old one...power. The Globalist movement is sponsored by elitists, actually...billionaires, politicians and other megalomaniacs. "Unity" and "Socialism" are for the proles, everybody who's not in the elite; for the elite, the plan is just more elitism, more power, more scope for their own ideological experiments, to be conducted at the expense of the ordinary folks.

It was Nietzsche who said the secret behind all moralizing is nothing but "power." And he wasn't wrong -- if by "moralizing" one means human ideologies and the moralizing they sponsor. The secret is that nobody has the moral authority to justify their impositions on other people...but they sure do pretend they have it.

Ironically, the usefulness of moralizing to serve a power play is entirely derivative...that is, it utterly depends on people believing that morality X IS the real, objective morality. Otherwise, the power-play becomes too obvious and is rejected. So even the power-hungry cynics are tacitly dependent on people's ongoing belief that behind the "morality" they are being taught (whether the morality of a religion, the morality of a secular ideology, or the morality of 'common sense') is objective morality. Therefore, all victims of inauthentic moralizing are actually believers in the existence of objective morality...they just can't decide which human morality reflects it.
this is in man's judgement of what is good and evil and the result of man's judgement is always death.
Well, exactly right. At the end of the day, human beings have no way of convincing others that their morality is the right one. So they inevitably have to resort to power...and often, they don't see this as illegitimate, because they believe, "I'm ultimately right; and when my morality has had a chance to reign for awhile, the results will prove I was right all along, and I'll be justified in what I have to do right now to make it come about. For now, I have to use power; but later, the end, the utopian outcome, the blessedness-to-come, the manifest justice, the consequent happiness, will justify the means I now have to use."

Of course, in every single case in history where this has been tried, man has been proven to be wrong.
this is the case through out man's history, thing is, is it evil? I do believe you're viewed as a theist here, one might think why in God's wisdom, is it like as you describe?
Oh, I am a Theist, alright. But the way things are today has nothing to do with "the wisdom of God," and everything to do with "the wisdom of men."

Nietzsche and I actually agree very much on a few things. One is that if Nietzsche's suppositions are right, then morality can never be anything BUT a power game...and there are no rules for morality...and it's "Devil take the untermensch" for everyone. As he says in his famous Madman's Tale,

"What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning?"

But that's only if Nietzsche's suppositions are right.

Are they right? Well, what were they?

He declares them: what's his most famous utterance, by far?

"God is dead."

That's Nietzsche's starting point. If there's no God, there's no such thing as objective morality either. And that really means to say, "There is no morality that is not merely an expression of the agenda of some power-seeking group. There is no master-morality that can ever tell us which is right and which is wrong, because none is ever really right or wrong at all; they're all mere stratagems, mere ruses, mere power-plays -- end of story."

Why do men tear each other apart? Because men have forgotten God. Nietzsche knew it, and so do I. He predicted the loss of all compasses "...backward, sideward, forward, in all directions...straying through an infinite nothing...the breath of empty space." He knew we'd lose our bearings completely once we lost belief in God.

But here's what Nietzsche did not know. He did not know his most basic supposition was false. God exists. Morality is objective. And Judgment is coming. For now, God waits for as many as will to repent, to ask His forgiveness, and to accept restoration to relationship with Him; but this cannot go on forever, and God still be righteous and just. He cannot forever suspend the judgment due to "the way things are today." If He did, then in what sense could we call God "just," or "righteous," or even "honest"? So the Judgment will come.

Nietzsche now knows that. And so he and I agree again.
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by Impenitent »

and we forget Freddy's father...

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DPMartin
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by DPMartin »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:14 pm
DPMartin wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:50 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:53 pm
Those are the "optics," alright...but the endgame is the old one...power. The Globalist movement is sponsored by elitists, actually...billionaires, politicians and other megalomaniacs. "Unity" and "Socialism" are for the proles, everybody who's not in the elite; for the elite, the plan is just more elitism, more power, more scope for their own ideological experiments, to be conducted at the expense of the ordinary folks.

It was Nietzsche who said the secret behind all moralizing is nothing but "power." And he wasn't wrong -- if by "moralizing" one means human ideologies and the moralizing they sponsor. The secret is that nobody has the moral authority to justify their impositions on other people...but they sure do pretend they have it.

Ironically, the usefulness of moralizing to serve a power play is entirely derivative...that is, it utterly depends on people believing that morality X IS the real, objective morality. Otherwise, the power-play becomes too obvious and is rejected. So even the power-hungry cynics are tacitly dependent on people's ongoing belief that behind the "morality" they are being taught (whether the morality of a religion, the morality of a secular ideology, or the morality of 'common sense') is objective morality. Therefore, all victims of inauthentic moralizing are actually believers in the existence of objective morality...they just can't decide which human morality reflects it.


Well, exactly right. At the end of the day, human beings have no way of convincing others that their morality is the right one. So they inevitably have to resort to power...and often, they don't see this as illegitimate, because they believe, "I'm ultimately right; and when my morality has had a chance to reign for awhile, the results will prove I was right all along, and I'll be justified in what I have to do right now to make it come about. For now, I have to use power; but later, the end, the utopian outcome, the blessedness-to-come, the manifest justice, the consequent happiness, will justify the means I now have to use."

Of course, in every single case in history where this has been tried, man has been proven to be wrong.
this is the case through out man's history, thing is, is it evil? I do believe you're viewed as a theist here, one might think why in God's wisdom, is it like as you describe?
Oh, I am a Theist, alright. But the way things are today has nothing to do with "the wisdom of God," and everything to do with "the wisdom of men."

Nietzsche and I actually agree very much on a few things. One is that if Nietzsche's suppositions are right, then morality can never be anything BUT a power game...and there are no rules for morality...and it's "Devil take the untermensch" for everyone. As he says in his famous Madman's Tale,

"What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning?"

But that's only if Nietzsche's suppositions are right.

Are they right? Well, what were they?

He declares them: what's his most famous utterance, by far?

"God is dead."

That's Nietzsche's starting point. If there's no God, there's no such thing as objective morality either. And that really means to say, "There is no morality that is not merely an expression of the agenda of some power-seeking group. There is no master-morality that can ever tell us which is right and which is wrong, because none is ever really right or wrong at all; they're all mere stratagems, mere ruses, mere power-plays -- end of story."

Why do men tear each other apart? Because men have forgotten God. Nietzsche knew it, and so do I. He predicted the loss of all compasses "...backward, sideward, forward, in all directions...straying through an infinite nothing...the breath of empty space." He knew we'd lose our bearings completely once we lost belief in God.

But here's what Nietzsche did not know. He did not know his most basic supposition was false. God exists. Morality is objective. And Judgment is coming. For now, God waits for as many as will to repent, to ask His forgiveness, and to accept restoration to relationship with Him; but this cannot go on forever, and God still be righteous and just. He cannot forever suspend the judgment due to "the way things are today." If He did, then in what sense could we call God "just," or "righteous," or even "honest"? So the Judgment will come.

Nietzsche now knows that. And so he and I agree again.
ah things have been that way for thousands of years, thing is, you seem to miss the point. God's Judgement is Life, man's is death simply because since God's Judgement is Life any other is not. "judgement day" is simply allowing man to receive his own judgement. (keep your eye on Israel, that will tell you if it be close)

the condemned state of man has been since Adam and Eve, the redemption and restoration is a prosses until God sees that it is good. don't have any expectations of human nature to be anything else but human nature, God doesn't, but He will be faithful to the faithful.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by Immanuel Can »

DPMartin wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:25 pm ...you seem to miss the point. God's Judgement is Life, man's is death simply because since God's Judgement is Life any other is not. "judgement day" is simply allowing man to receive his own judgement."
Hmmm...it seems to me that that's not how the Bible explains it. (see Revelation 20, for example)

And I think it's fair to say that there are a large number of people around who would share the observation that it is often the case that, in this life, at least, people who don't deserve privileges seem to get them, and those that do deserve a break often don't catch one. "The Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" is not the same show as "The Lives of the Virtuous and Just," is it?

That, in fact, is one of the more obvious skeptics' complaints against God: "Why don't things seem fair?" or "Where is justice?"

Well, the answer's coming, of course.
DPMartin
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by DPMartin »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:32 pm
DPMartin wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:25 pm ...you seem to miss the point. God's Judgement is Life, man's is death simply because since God's Judgement is Life any other is not. "judgement day" is simply allowing man to receive his own judgement."
Hmmm...it seems to me that that's not how the Bible explains it. (see Revelation 20, for example)

And I think it's fair to say that there are a large number of people around who would share the observation that it is often the case that, in this life, at least, people who don't deserve privileges seem to get them, and those that do deserve a break often don't catch one. "The Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" is not the same show as "The Lives of the Virtuous and Just," is it?

That, in fact, is one of the more obvious skeptics' complaints against God: "Why don't things seem fair?" or "Where is justice?"

Well, the answer's coming, of course.
well what of a nuk war the OT prophets support that line of thinking? flying scrolls the size of intercontinental ballistic missals or when Jesus returns to Mt of Olives the Mt will become a valley and its generally considered the Samson missals are under the Mt of Olives. kicking so much dirt in the air the sun and the moon become dim. OT prophets are reliable but the book of revelation, one could say the jury is still out on that one, very little if any matches up with OT prophets.


also anything of a natural event is a natural event of which man is left to there own devices to survive it. again you forget, all flesh was wiped off the face of the earth, but the chosen to get the chosen.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by Immanuel Can »

DPMartin wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:47 pm ...the OT prophets support that line of thinking...
There are those who think God would need some naturalistic "help" in making the prophecies come true. There are others who think He doesn't need the "help" but might still choose to let some things come about naturalistically. I would think that the God who created everything would be able to arrange things either with or without input from natural forces...far less would He need man-made ones.

The important point is this: there's clearly a Great Judgment, the terms of which are spelled out in places like Rev. 20, but also in places like Hebrews 9, 2 Cor. 5, Romans 14, 1 Peter 4, Matthew 10...and so on. And in all cases, this is a divine judicial judgment to address sin in an ultimate way, not merely a set of natural disasters to inconvenience or a human war of some kind.
DPMartin
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by DPMartin »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:34 pm
DPMartin wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:47 pm ...the OT prophets support that line of thinking...
There are those who think God would need some naturalistic "help" in making the prophecies come true. There are others who think He doesn't need the "help" but might still choose to let some things come about naturalistically. I would think that the God who created everything would be able to arrange things either with or without input from natural forces...far less would He need man-made ones.

The important point is this: there's clearly a Great Judgment, the terms of which are spelled out in places like Rev. 20, but also in places like Hebrews 9, 2 Cor. 5, Romans 14, 1 Peter 4, Matthew 10...and so on. And in all cases, this is a divine judicial judgment to address sin in an ultimate way, not merely a set of natural disasters to inconvenience or a human war of some kind.
sorry, don't follow, "Great Judgment" was not found in scripture.

even though Elohim means "Creator and Judge" the delayed conclusion or fulfillment or today's terms stay of execution is do to A&E's judgement and the same who received the life they had of dust to dust, is what is described in scripture just as the coming of Christ, now fulfilled, was described in scripture.

because the Life they had before they ate of the tree and then died from, requires belief and trust in God's Word. how did Jesus say it, man lives by every word that proceeds out of the Mouth of God. Again, God's Judgement is Life, Jesus proved that, and any other judgement is not life because God's Judgement is Life.

you're preaching God's Judgement is death to man, and its not, not at all. the stay of execution is merely for the fulfillment of His Will expressed in His Word to His satisfaction as in until God sees that it is good despite the condemned state of man. if you listen to what Jesus says, you'll get that He sees the world as dead men walking unless they are born again as in receive the Life He has and gave.


it seems you might not understand the grace Noah found in God's sight, what it really means to all who received Noah's life.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by Immanuel Can »

DPMartin wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:28 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:34 pm
DPMartin wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:47 pm ...the OT prophets support that line of thinking...
There are those who think God would need some naturalistic "help" in making the prophecies come true. There are others who think He doesn't need the "help" but might still choose to let some things come about naturalistically. I would think that the God who created everything would be able to arrange things either with or without input from natural forces...far less would He need man-made ones.

The important point is this: there's clearly a Great Judgment, the terms of which are spelled out in places like Rev. 20, but also in places like Hebrews 9, 2 Cor. 5, Romans 14, 1 Peter 4, Matthew 10...and so on. And in all cases, this is a divine judicial judgment to address sin in an ultimate way, not merely a set of natural disasters to inconvenience or a human war of some kind.
sorry, don't follow, "Great Judgment" was not found in scripture.
Look in the passages I pointed out above.

It's obvious you didn't. Otherwise, you wouldn't say that.

Here's an obvious one:

" Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Rev.20:11-15)

Sounds like one Great Judgment to me.
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Re: Alternative Globalisation

Post by DPMartin »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:40 pm
DPMartin wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:28 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:34 pm
There are those who think God would need some naturalistic "help" in making the prophecies come true. There are others who think He doesn't need the "help" but might still choose to let some things come about naturalistically. I would think that the God who created everything would be able to arrange things either with or without input from natural forces...far less would He need man-made ones.

The important point is this: there's clearly a Great Judgment, the terms of which are spelled out in places like Rev. 20, but also in places like Hebrews 9, 2 Cor. 5, Romans 14, 1 Peter 4, Matthew 10...and so on. And in all cases, this is a divine judicial judgment to address sin in an ultimate way, not merely a set of natural disasters to inconvenience or a human war of some kind.
sorry, don't follow, "Great Judgment" was not found in scripture.
Look in the passages I pointed out above.

It's obvious you didn't. Otherwise, you wouldn't say that.

Here's an obvious one:

" Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Rev.20:11-15)

Sounds like one Great Judgment to me.
where is the phrase or title of "Great Judgment"? note the statement "And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire" and your name isn't in the book of Life because of who's judgement? God's or yours?

also an FYI on fire:

1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire


something you should know about the Lord God of Israel:

Heb_12:29  For our God is a consuming fire. of which Paul quotes; Deu_4:24  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

John the Baptist says of Jesus:

Mat_3:11  I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

the Presence of God gives Life to the faithful, not the unfaithful, and it will be tested buy the fire that saves you, according to Paul. it will probably take a few seconds for the human race from Adam to the last soul to receive ether the results of God's Judgement or the results of their own judgement seeing that the Lord God is a consuming fire. for as many in scripture try to explain one infraction of any part of the law is the same result of the offence of the whole law which is death. and salvation is by grace through faith or through grace by faith depending or jew or gentile, its really the faith that counts and faith in this case is ether the belief in trust in God's Judgements of what is good and evil, or those who seek to be gods by trusting and believing in man's judgements of good and evil.


the reason for the whole thing is that God gave man His place in the earth to execute God's Judgements, that was betrayed from the very start.
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