Crime and punishment

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henry quirk
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Re: Crime and punishment

Post by henry quirk »

mickthinks wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:07 pm this protected inciter ...

An inciter like His Corrupt Highness the Insurrectionist-In-Chief? As in;
We will stop the steal
You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong
I know everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building.
It'll be wild
What could Waters have said that was as bad as that?
Nuthin' better or worse, as you know.

"We've got to stay in the street and demand justice."

"We're looking for a guilty verdict and we're looking to see if all of the talk that took place and has been taking place after they saw what happened to George Floyd. If nothing does not happen, then we know that we got to not only stay in the street, but we have got to fight for justice."

"We got to stay on the street. And we've got to get more active, we've got to get more confrontational. We've got to make sure that they know that we mean business."

"I don't think anything about curfew. Curfew means I want you all to stop talking. I want you to stop meeting. I want you to stop gathering. I don't agree with that."

They impeached him for it; she ought to suffer the equivalent.
Walker
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Re: Crime and punishment

Post by Walker »

Used to be, out of moral respect for the rule of law and the judicial process, elected officials did not contaminate public opinion about trials in process. Those days are gone. Even Biden got involved with pre-judging the outcome, and excused himself from the transgression with the rationale that the deliberating jurors were sequestered, conveniently ignoring the sanction of the bully pulpit on rioters straining at the bit.

The Leftist political philosophical model of ethics is … if you can get away with it, it isn’t wrong.
https://www.reuters.com/business/legal/ ... 021-04-19/
“The judge overseeing the trial of former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin on Monday harshly criticized U.S. Representative Maxine Waters' remarks on the case, saying she might have given the defense grounds for appeal in the event of a conviction.

“Hennepin County District Judge Peter Cahill said during the closing moments of Chauvin's trial that it was abhorrent of Waters, a Democrat from California, to tell protesters it would be unacceptable for the former officer to be acquitted of murdering George Floyd.”
Walker
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Re: Crime and punishment

Post by Walker »

A Troubled Rule of Law
https://www.city-journal.org/chauvin-ve ... ule-of-law

“Now Biden’s attorney general, Merrick Garland, has announced the initiation of a pattern or practice investigation of the Minneapolis Police Department, signaling the start of increased federal control of police departments.”
- Heather MacDonald
mickthinks
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Re: Crime and punishment

Post by mickthinks »

Mick: What could Waters have said that was as bad as that?
Henry: Nuthin' better or worse, as you know.
  • "We've got to stay in the street and demand justice."
  • "We're looking for a guilty verdict and we're looking to see if all of the talk that took place and has been taking place after they saw what happened to George Floyd. If nothing does not happen, then we know that we got to not only stay in the street, but we have got to fight for justice."
  • "We got to stay on the street. And we've got to get more active, we've got to get more confrontational. We've got to make sure that they know that we mean business."
  • "I don't think anything about curfew. Curfew means I want you all to stop talking. I want you to stop meeting. I want you to stop gathering. I don't agree with that."
But there is no comparison, Henry! For a start, just consider for a moment how differently things might have turned out on Jan 6th if only the former president had said something like "We've got to stay on the street".

And #45 was not impeached for describing the political aims of peaceful protestors in response to questions from the press. He was impeached for inciting an insurrection.

You are trying to draw a moral equivalence between a peaceful street protest and a violent attempt to overthrow a branch of the US government. I think that shows you have lost your moral compass, dude!
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henry quirk
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Re: Crime and punishment

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ORANGE MAN didn't incite insurrection; BLACK WOMAN didn't incite continued rioting.

Enemies of ORANGE MAN blame him for the actions of yahoos by ignorin' context; enemies of BLACK WOMAN blame her for the actions of another set of yahoos by ignorin' context.

TPTB are playin' folks.

I suggest you stop lettin' 'em play you, Mick.
Walker
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Re: Crime and punishment

Post by Walker »

Currently, the Left-wing media, which is becoming indistinguishable from Chinese propaganda, has Police Force in their sights. The latest narrative vehicle for the Defund The Police Movement is the cop-shooting of a 16 year-old woman in Columbus, Ohio.

The sixteen-year old woman, who from videos appears to be about 180 pounds of fast-moving fury, was a split-second away from gutting another woman with a knife, so with lethal force the cop neutralized the imminent threat that was turning into murder right before his eyes.

If the cop had not saved the The Pink Woman by shooting her fast-moving armed attacker, 180 pounds of fury, there would be video evidence to prove his depraved indifference. Lose-lose situation for the cop, ‘specially with hair-trigger activists around such as those owned by China posting pictures of the cop to a large following of minions with the added caption that read, You’re Next.

Left-wing media was quick to tailor early known facts to fit the narrative, e.g., edited reporting of the 911 call, reporting that didn’t mention a knife, reporting that the 16-year old was an unarmed child after first reporting she was a 15 year-old child.

Left-wing media-intimidation of police is another way to deconstruct the institution.

Keywords to locate story and videos: Columbus Cop Shooting You’re Next
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henry quirk
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Re: Crime and punishment

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Walker wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:51 pm Currently, the Left-wing media, which is becoming indistinguishable from Chinese propaganda, has Police Force in their sights. The latest narrative vehicle for the Defund The Police Movement is the cop-shooting of a 16 year-old woman in Columbus, Ohio.

The sixteen-year old woman, who from videos appears to be about 180 pounds of fast-moving fury, was a split-second away from gutting another woman with a knife, so with lethal force the cop neutralized the imminent threat that was turning into murder right before his eyes.

If the cop had not saved the The Pink Woman by shooting her fast-moving armed attacker, 180 pounds of fury, there would be video evidence to prove his depraved indifference. Lose-lose situation for the cop, ‘specially with hair-trigger activists around such as those owned by China posting pictures of the cop to a large following of minions with the added caption that read, You’re Next.

Left-wing media was quick to tailor early known facts to fit the narrative, e.g., edited reporting of the 911 call, reporting that didn’t mention a knife, reporting that the 16-year old was an unarmed child after first reporting she was a 15 year-old child.

Left-wing media-intimidation of police is another way to deconstruct the institution.

Keywords to locate story and videos: Columbus Cop Shooting You’re Next
I got a divided mind on cops.

They, as a whole, operate with relative impunity, a thing that's led to a lot of misery.

They (some, at least) try and do right.

I can't support 'em as a whole, but neither can I condemn them as a whole.

Policing obviously needs reform: first, best, most directly effective thing would be endin' qualified immunity.

Simply hold these trained, authority-gifted, individuals to the same standard as all the rest of us untrained folks who have no special authority-privilege.

Make individual law enforcers as accountable as anyone and you'll see abuses like no-knock raids disappear.

If they operate within the law much of the justly-earned bad press goes away (and the unjust bad press will be viewed with suspicion), the general opinion of 'em will rise, and nimrods who shriek to end policing won't have a leg to stand on.
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Re: Crime and punishment

Post by mickthinks »

henry quirk wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:20 pmORANGE MAN didn't incite insurrection; BLACK WOMAN didn't incite continued rioting.
Protests are not riots, and even less are they insurrections. You draw parallels like a three year old with a box of crayons.

And the former president did incite insurrection. There was an attempted insurrection culminting in a mob storming the Capitol building and gaining access to the chamber and offices of members of congress. That happened because #45 incited it. He incited it by declaring over and over again, with all the authority of PotUS, that he had won the 2020 election and that it was being stolen from him.

Trump: "I won! Stop the Steal!"
Waters: "Chauvin is guilty! Don't acquit him! "

One is a big lie. The other is an important truth. There is no equivalence. To even suggest otherwise is to perpetuate the big lie.
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Re: Crime and punishment

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There was no insurrection. A buncha yahoos got themselves worked up and got stupid.

ORANGE MAN didn't incite insurrection. He spoke plainly, rawly, with zeal. His words were, are, used by his enemies to profit.

Whatever peaceful demonstrations there are or were, from the start they've been overshadowed by riotous actions. Property damage, injury, and death.

OLD BLACK WOMAN didn't incite riotous action. She supported peaceable action with plain, raw, zealous speech. Her words were, are, bein' used by her enemies for profit.

You, sir, are bein' hoodwinked.
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Re: Crime and punishment

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In the event there was no insurrection.

But that doesn't get the former president off the charge of inciting one.
It was attempted.
#45 incited that attempt.

Your denial of that fact is telling, i think.
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henry quirk
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Re: Crime and punishment

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mickthinks wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:32 pm In the event there was no insurrection.

But that doesn't get the former president off the charge of inciting one.
It was attempted.
#45 incited that attempt.

Your denial of that fact is telling, i think.
There was no insurrection.

ORANGE MAN didn't incite insurrection.

The folks pushin' that story are the same ones who opposed him thru-out his four years.

The charge was *ahem* trumped up.

You believe that becuz he was charged, indicted, impeached, the charge was, is just.

It wasn't and isn't.

Bastiat noted, what, 150 years ago...

The nature of law is to maintain justice. This is so much the case that, in the minds of the people, law and justice are one and the same thing. There is in all of us a strong disposition to believe that anything lawful is also legitimate. This belief is so widespread that many persons have erroneously held that things are “just” because law makes them so. Thus, in order to make plunder appear just and sacred to many consciences, it is only necessary for the law to decree and sanction it. Slavery, restrictions, and monopoly [*and unwarranted impeachment] find defenders not only among those who profit from them but also among those who suffer from them.

The wool is over your eyes: pull it away.


*my addition
mickthinks
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Re: Crime and punishment

Post by mickthinks »

Henry: There was no insurrection.
Mick: There was an act of attempted insurrection, on the former president's behalf and at his behest.

Henry: ORANGE MAN didn't incite insurrection.
Mick: The former president incited the attempt. It is a matter of public record.

That's treason, dude. I don't understand why you want to hand wave it away. It's not as if you are a supporter.
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henry quirk
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Re: Crime and punishment

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Mick: There was an act of attempted insurrection, on the former president's behalf and at his behest.

Nope. Dumb yahoos trompin' 'round the cap bldg ain't insurrection...mebbe trespassin', but not insurrection.

And: nope, ORANGE MAN didn't incite insurrection.

You keep sayin' it: I'll keep sayin' nope.


Mick: The former president incited the attempt. It is a matter of public record.

The public record is just folks sayin' a thing that is recorded. That it is public record, in and of itself, don't make it right, accurate, truthful.

Go read the Bastiat quote again.


That's treason, dude. I don't understand why you want to hand wave it away. It's not as if you are a supporter.

There was no treason. I'm pointin' to what is, not hand wavin' anything away. An honest man -- ORANGE MAN supporter or not -- ain't gonna pretend bullshit is steak just to play nice or go along to get along.
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Re: Crime and punishment

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Dumb yahoos trompin' 'round the cap bldg ain't insurrection...mebbe trespassin', but not insurrection.

lol I can do that, Henry: Dumb yahoos lobbin' some shells at a fort ain't insurrection ... mebbe vandalism, but not insurrection.

But it was, though, wasn't it ... probably the most famous act of insurrection since some dumb yahoos went tippin' a few packets of tea into Boston Harbor.

The violent mob that #45 assembled and directed attacked Congress on Jan 6th while it was in session confirming the election of Biden, in order to keep the loser of the election in power. That's insurrection.

That they failed is no defence against the charge that insurrection is what #45 had incited.
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a different tack

Post by henry quirk »

ORANGE MAN was impeached for incitin' insurrection.

Was he found guilty?

You say the three to four hundred who tromped thru the cap bldg were insurrectionists.

Were any of those yahoos charged with insurrection or treason?

Have any been convicted of insurrection or treason?
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