Philosophy Clan

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 6604
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Lacewing »

Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:31 am Identity is action, that which moves is that which is defined. We are our actions.
So, identity can be fake... because actions can certainly be fake. Yes?
User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 6604
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Lacewing »

Advocate wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:35 am We are the continuity of our experience.
Do we ever change? Do we ever move beyond (rise above) our experience? Do we evolve our sense of self?

If so, what is the consistent identity?
Advocate
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=503770 time=1616509088 user_id=17350]
[quote=Advocate post_id=503750 time=1616504988 user_id=15238]
Volition is a type of experience. Sometimes i don't know how y'all manage to breathe.
[/quote]
So then everything's experience.

That's [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong]not even wrong[/url].
[/quote]

Everything that has relevance must first be experienced. That doesn't mean experience is the end-all of everything. For external uses that experience requires external validation.
Last edited by Advocate on Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Advocate
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Lacewing post_id=503796 time=1616516504 user_id=11228]
[quote=Advocate post_id=503681 time=1616470522 user_id=15238]
We are the continuity of our experience.
[/quote]
Do we ever change? Do we ever move beyond (rise above) our experience? Do we evolve our sense of self?

If so, what is the consistent identity?
[/quote]

We Always change. What's in the middle of that experience is it's continuity. Remove the continuity and self becomes meaningless. Ever see the people who can't remember more than 5 second? They have no meaningful self.

What that experience is of is infinitely (in theory) diverse and can produce infinite (theoretically) different selves, within the spacial/temporal constraints of individuation.

Our sense of self begins with experience qua experience, but that is momentary and we are more than momentary. It goes on to encompass continuity at various levels. We're continuously attached to our body so most people (body dysmorphia) claim our bodies as our selves. Expanding outward we find relationships and property, that which we require to have stable continuity in order to create forward momentum.

To understand the limits of self, consider how diminished people feel when they lose this or that, their body part, family, pet, job, car... and to what extent they recover from the loss. The slower they recover, the more their sense of self was invested in whatever it is.
Skepdick
Posts: 14364
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:09 pm We Always change. What's in the middle of that experience is it's continuity. Remove the continuity and self becomes meaningless. Ever see the people who can't remember more than 5 second? They have no meaningful self.
If your experiences were continuous you'd be able to account for every single second of your being in the last 7 days.

You can't. Because your brain does regular garbage collection. For good reasons.
Advocate
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=503835 time=1616523849 user_id=17350]
[quote=Advocate post_id=503832 time=1616522948 user_id=15238]
We Always change. What's in the middle of that experience is it's continuity. Remove the continuity and self becomes meaningless. Ever see the people who can't remember more than 5 second? They have no meaningful self.
[/quote]
If your experiences were continuous you'd be able to account for every single second of your being in the last 7 days.

You can't. Because your brain does regular garbage collection. For good reasons.
[/quote]

Exhaustive continuity, or close enough, is something that some people actually do have, but it's not necessary for having a sense of self.
Skepdick
Posts: 14364
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:04 pm Exhaustive continuity, or close enough, is something that some people actually do have, but it's not necessary for having a sense of self.
The only thing necessary for having a sense of self is using the English word "I".
Last edited by Skepdick on Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Advocate
Posts: 3470
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:27 am
Contact:

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Skepdick post_id=503858 time=1616526339 user_id=17350]
[quote=Advocate post_id=503857 time=1616526281 user_id=15238]
Exhaustive continuity, or close enough, is something that some people actually do have, but it's not necessary for having a sense of self.
[/quote]
The only thing necessary for having a sense of self is using the English word "I".
[/quote]

Continuity of experience is a prerequisite for that statement.
Skepdick
Posts: 14364
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:06 pm Continuity of experience is a prerequisite for that statement.
They aren't.

The only thing pre-requisite for any statement is I. The utterer of statements.
Gary Childress
Posts: 8117
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:05 pm
Advocate wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:04 pm Exhaustive continuity, or close enough, is something that some people actually do have, but it's not necessary for having a sense of self.
The only thing necessary for having a sense of self is using the English word "I".
Oh yay! Let's hear it for depersonalization. NOT!
Skepdick
Posts: 14364
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:08 pm Oh yay! Let's hear it for depersonalization. NOT!
How did you get to that from what I said?
Gary Childress
Posts: 8117
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:15 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:08 pm Oh yay! Let's hear it for depersonalization. NOT!
How did you get to that from what I said?
I read minds, obviously.
Skepdick
Posts: 14364
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Skepdick »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:16 pm
Skepdick wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:15 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:08 pm Oh yay! Let's hear it for depersonalization. NOT!
How did you get to that from what I said?
I read minds, obviously.
Or project them.
Gary Childress
Posts: 8117
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 pm
Location: Retirement Home for foolosophers

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Gary Childress »

Skepdick wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:17 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:16 pm
Skepdick wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:15 pm
How did you get to that from what I said?
I read minds, obviously.
Or project them.
The only thing necessary for having a sense of self is using the English word "I".
You said it, not me.
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 8595
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Philosophy Clan

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Lacewing wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:17 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:31 am Identity is action, that which moves is that which is defined. We are our actions.
So, identity can be fake... because actions can certainly be fake. Yes?
A faked action is still an action, at most identity cannot be original thus fragmented. So to answer your question from another angle, yes identity can be fragmented and unoriginal.
Post Reply