No I'm not. I'm not prescribing anything for anyone.
Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
- Terrapin Station
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Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
Then why are you excluding parts of reality in your search parameters?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:01 pm No I'm not. I'm not prescribing anything for anyone.
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Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
I'm not.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:02 pmThen why are you excluding parts of reality in your search parameters?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:01 pm No I'm not. I'm not prescribing anything for anyone.
Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
You are....Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:02 pmI'm not.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:02 pmThen why are you excluding parts of reality in your search parameters?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:01 pm No I'm not. I'm not prescribing anything for anyone.
You explicitly specified the search location as extramental.
You are excluding parts of reality from your search.
Why?
Why ought shoulds and oughts be extramental?Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:26 pm Searching for anything that could count as an extramental "should/ought"
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Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
If we're wondering if there are any objective normatives or ethical edicts, or if we're wondering whether any extramental facts imply any normatives, that's the topic!
You're not going to look at whether any normatives or moral edicts occur as mental phenomena because that's not at issue; there's no dispute about that.
For the hundredth time, the is/ought issue isn't a dispute over whether it's a fact that people say things like "I ought to pay my taxes." No one is disputing that. The issue is over whether the extramental fact that you'll get thrown in jail if you don't pay your taxes implies that you ought to pay your taxes.
Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
We aren't wondering any such things.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:13 pm If we're wondering if there are any objective normatives or ethical edicts, or if we're wondering whether any extramental facts imply any normatives, that's the topic!
You're not going to look at whether any normatives or moral edicts occur as mental phenomena because that's not at issue; there's no dispute about that.
For the hundredth time, the is/ought issue isn't a dispute over whether it's a fact that people say things like "I ought to pay my taxes." No one is disputing that. The issue is over whether the extramental fact that you'll get thrown in jail if you don't pay your taxes implies that you ought to pay your taxes.
If reality is all that exists, and there's such thing as an "ought" (and there must be, since you are talking about it) then it must be part of "all there is".
If oughts are not part of "all there is" then... what the fuck are you talking about?
If oughts are part of "all there is" then.... Why do you prescribe "objectivity" as mind-independence? Why doesn't "objectivity" correspond exactly to "all that exists"?
You really can't seem to string a sentence together to be able to explain what the dispute is about.
Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
There is a universe in which the extramental fact "you'll get thrown in jail" implies that you ought to pay your taxes.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:13 pm The issue is over whether the extramental fact that you'll get thrown in jail if you don't pay your taxes implies that you ought to pay your taxes.
There's a universe in which the extramental fact "you'll get thrown in jail" doesn't imply that you ought to pay your taxes.
Which fucking universe are you in?
THE ONE YOU CREATE.
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Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
We are when we ask if there are any objective normatives or ethical edicts, or when we talk about the is/ought problem.
That's the topic when those issues come up.
It's fine if you're not interested in that topic, but that's what the topic is.
Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
This is a normative framing of the topic.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:24 pmWe are when we ask if there are any objective normatives or ethical edicts, or when we talk about the is/ought problem.
That's the topic when those issues come up.
It's fine if you're not interested in that topic, but that's what the topic is.
I am fine if you keep pretending that it isn't, but I'll keep pointing out that it is.
Last edited by Skepdick on Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
The evidence is whatever mechanism you used to excluded the other possible universe!Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:24 pm Suppose that's the case. How does that work in that universe, and what would count as evidence for it?
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Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
It's not a normative. I'm not telling anyone that that's what they ought to/should be talking about. I don't care what you talk about. I'm just telling you that that's what the vast majority of people are talking about re those topics. That's the issue. Otherwise it wouldn't even be clear that there's any issue, that there's any dispute.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:24 pmThis is a normative framing of the topic.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:24 pmWe are when we ask if there are any objective normatives or ethical edicts, or when we talk about the is/ought problem.
That's the topic when those issues come up.
It's fine if you're not interested in that topic, but that's what the topic is.
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Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
So you have no idea. It would be far more interesting if you did have an idea.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:25 pmThe evidence is whatever mechanism you used to excluded the other possible universe!Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:24 pm Suppose that's the case. How does that work in that universe, and what would count as evidence for it?
Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
So you are appealing to a bandwagon fallacy to justifying your normative semantics/framing of the issue.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:26 pm It's not a normative. I'm not telling anyone that that's what they ought to/should be talking about. I don't care what you talk about. I'm just telling you that that's what the vast majority of people are talking about re those topics. That's the issue. Otherwise it wouldn't even be clear that there's any issue, that there's any dispute.
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Re: Humans are the Co-Creator of Reality They are In [2]
There's no justification necessary. It's just a matter of whether we're talking about one thing or another.Skepdick wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:27 pmSo you are appealing to a bandwagon fallacy to justifying your normative semantics/framing of the issue.Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:26 pm It's not a normative. I'm not telling anyone that that's what they ought to/should be talking about. I don't care what you talk about. I'm just telling you that that's what the vast majority of people are talking about re those topics. That's the issue. Otherwise it wouldn't even be clear that there's any issue, that there's any dispute.