God Infinity

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Terrapin Station
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Terrapin Station »

Ferdi wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:32 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:51 pm
Ferdi wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:56 am

Thank you TP. Infinity is the label for a concept that we know to exist but our senses of time and dimensions of space do not apply to it.
What I'm getting at is not that but the fact that there has to be an infinity of something.

Think, for example, of finite quantities. If someone says, "The origin of x (x being whatever existent) is 5," then people would ask "5 what?" 5 is a quantity of something. It doesn't make sense to say that 5 exists "on its own" and that it does things (like having some effect on objects or creating things or whatever). Only 5 OF something can do that.
Infinity just IS ! Our ideas of space and time do not apply. We float on Planet Earth in the infinite space of Infinity. You cannot see it and there is nothing you can do about it but you are in it. If you want to get out of the temporary phase of life, just kill yourself. Your body stays here; without you in it, it will start to disintegrate, return into the "dust" it was made off. At the instant of your death "you" will cross from the finite "zone" into the zone-less infinity. IMO at the instant of your crossing you will see in a flash, with Infinite Wisdom what you have done with your "life"; you will judge yourself. It is my explanation for us having a free will, my reasoning for having been born with the ability to choose between being good or bad while on planet earth.
So basically you're using it as an arbitrary mystery term to "explain" something you don't know how to otherwise explain.
Ferdi
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Ferdi »

Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:51 pm

What I'm getting at is not that but the fact that there has to be an infinity of something.

Ferdi
No. Infinity just IS. You live in it, the Universe!
You will be in it until you die. Ask yourself: where will the life in you, which is your earthly personality, go to when you die?
My answer is: you will go to wherever your life came from at birth, which IMO is the invisible space of the Universe in which Planet Earth is "suspended".
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Terrapin Station
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Re: God Infinity

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Ferdi wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:57 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:51 pm

What I'm getting at is not that but the fact that there has to be an infinity of something.

Ferdi
No. Infinity just IS. You live in it, the Universe!
You will be in it until you die. Ask yourself: where will the life in you, which is your earthly personality, go to when you die?
My answer is: you will go to wherever your life came from at birth, which IMO is the invisible space of the Universe in which Planet Earth is "suspended".
So you're using "infinity" simply as an alternate term for "universe"?

We don't "go anywhere" when we die. As conscious entities, as anything with a personality, etc. we simply cease to exist.
Last edited by Terrapin Station on Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ferdi
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Ferdi »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:26 am
Ferdi wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:57 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:51 pm

What I'm getting at is not that but the fact that there has to be an infinity of something.

Ferdi
No. Infinity just IS. You live in it, the Universe!
You will be in it until you die. Ask yourself: where will the life in you, which is your earthly personality, go to when you die?
My answer is: you will go to wherever your life came from at birth, which IMO is the invisible space of the Universe in which Planet Earth is "suspended".
So you're using "infinity" simply as an alternate term for "universe"?

We don't "to anywhere" when we die. As conscious entities, as anything with a personality, etc. we simply cease to exist.
Re your Infinity. No, you still don't get it. The Universe is infinite, no end in any direction.
Re dying. Where then do you believe your life came from after your birth when your mother and whoever was in attendance, were anxiously awaiting you to start crying, which is the most common sign of a new babe's arrival.
Moreover, have you not questioned about why we have a free will? Why are there bad as well as good people? Why are we not all born equal? Mind you, it would be a dull world if we were!
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bahman
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Re: God Infinity

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There is no such a thing as God, the creator. The existence is infinite though and that guarantees the existence of all sorts of things. But non of them could be all-knowing since there was a beginning and the knowledge is not exhaustive.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: God Infinity

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Ferdi wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:28 am
Re your Infinity. No, you still don't get it. The Universe is infinite, no end in any direction.
Okay, but that was just my point--we have to be talking about something that is infinite. Just like we'd have to be talking about something that there are five of.
Re dying. Where then do you believe your life came from
It's how the materials of your body, in particular structures, function given the right environment and the right inputs (air, water, etc.)
Moreover, have you not questioned about why we have a free will?
The only thing mysterious about that is why there are so many people who don't seem to be aware of developments in the sciences over the past 150+ years. Laplace's Demon was already considered dubious when it emerged, and that was 1814.
Why are there bad as well as good people?
Because different people have different dispositions, different preferences about interpersonal behavior, and there are also physiological reasons that some people have problems controlling their own behavior (so that people don't always act in line with their own preferences), as well as there being cognitive dissonances due to the brain 's complexity.
Why are we not all born equal?
Something called minimalism is the case: no numerically distinct entities are identical.


Re everything you're asking me above, if you're really interested in all of this sort of stuff you can easily learn about it.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: God Infinity

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bahman wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:21 pm The existence is infinite though and that guarantees the existence of all sorts of things.
The mere fact that there would be an infinity of anything doesn't guarantee variety at all. There could be an infinity of the "same" sock and that's it.
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bahman
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Re: God Infinity

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:01 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:21 pm The existence is infinite though and that guarantees the existence of all sorts of things.
The mere fact that there would be an infinity of anything doesn't guarantee variety at all. There could be an infinity of the "same" sock and that's it.
It does guarantee.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: God Infinity

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bahman wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:09 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:01 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:21 pm The existence is infinite though and that guarantees the existence of all sorts of things.
The mere fact that there would be an infinity of anything doesn't guarantee variety at all. There could be an infinity of the "same" sock and that's it.
It does guarantee.
Repeating this isn't actually an argument.

Again, there could simply be an infinity of the "same" thing--for a more practical example, say that beyond the boundaries of the visible universe, there were an infinity of, say, neutrons in a uniform "soup." If you're arguing that that couldn't be the case, then actually present an argument for why it couldn't be the case.
Skepdick
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Re: God Infinity

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:26 am We don't "go anywhere" when we die. As conscious entities, as anything with a personality, etc. we simply cease to exist.
We do?

That claim sure disregards all conservation laws in physics.
Ferdi
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Ferdi »

Skepdick wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:53 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:26 am We don't "go anywhere" when we die. As conscious entities, as anything with a personality, etc. we simply cease to exist.
We do?

That claim sure disregards all conservation laws in physics.
Where then do you think we come from and why there are good and bad people? If there is no reason to be good we may as well all start thieving and not work for a living.
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bahman
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Re: God Infinity

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:21 pm
bahman wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:09 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:01 pm
The mere fact that there would be an infinity of anything doesn't guarantee variety at all. There could be an infinity of the "same" sock and that's it.
It does guarantee.
Repeating this isn't actually an argument.

Again, there could simply be an infinity of the "same" thing--for a more practical example, say that beyond the boundaries of the visible universe, there were an infinity of, say, neutrons in a uniform "soup." If you're arguing that that couldn't be the case, then actually present an argument for why it couldn't be the case.
The beginning is indifferent so it is logically impossible to have a soup of neutrons everywhere. Moreover, Boltzmann Brain is possible in finite world which exists long enough too.
Skepdick
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Skepdick »

Ferdi wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:26 am Where then do you think we come from and why there are good and bad people? If there is no reason to be good we may as well all start thieving and not work for a living.
There are "good" and "bad" people because we classified them that way.

There are good reasons to be "good"; and there are good reasons to be "bad".

You are welcome to start thieving. If everyone did it - there'll be nothing to steal and nobody to steal it from. A society of thieves has nothing worth stealing.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: God Infinity

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bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:07 am The beginning is indifferent so it is logically impossible to have a soup of neutrons everywhere.
???

How does the logical argument go there?
Moreover, Boltzmann Brain is possible in finite world which exists long enough too.
Again, it depends on the exact characteristics of the world in question.
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bahman
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Re: God Infinity

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:48 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:07 am The beginning is indifferent so it is logically impossible to have a soup of neutrons everywhere.
???

How does the logical argument go there?
Can we agree that the stuff that existed at Big Bang had no structure?
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:48 pm
Moreover, Boltzmann Brain is possible in finite world which exists long enough too.
Again, it depends on the exact characteristics of the world in question.
I am talking about the observable universe which obviously is not a neutron soup.
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