God Infinity

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bahman
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Re: God Infinity

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:56 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:54 pm It has. Think of life. The chance for having life in a larger universe is larger.
We went over this already. At some point you just gave up responding to the comments I was making.
You gave up. Our discussion is there waiting for your comment.
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:56 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:41 pm "Other realities" would have to be clarified.
Why not? Think of life. It is possible. I have contact with spiritual beings so I can clarify them.
"Why not" is a weird response. So you're talking about "spiritual beings"? I don't buy that there are such things. (Though I'm a fan of the fantasy of it.)
Soon or late.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:01 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:56 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:54 pm It has. Think of life. The chance for having life in a larger universe is larger.
We went over this already. At some point you just gave up responding to the comments I was making.
You gave up. Our discussion is there waiting for your comment.
That's where I explained the problems with Bayesian probability, etc. the first time. You just moved on to something else rather than commenting on that in any depth.
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:56 pm
Why not? Think of life. It is possible. I have contact with spiritual beings so I can clarify them.
"Why not" is a weird response. So you're talking about "spiritual beings"? I don't buy that there are such things. (Though I'm a fan of the fantasy of it.)
Soon or late.
Huh?
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bahman
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Re: God Infinity

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:27 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:01 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:56 pm
We went over this already. At some point you just gave up responding to the comments I was making.
You gave up. Our discussion is there waiting for your comment.
That's where I explained the problems with Bayesian probability, etc. the first time. You just moved on to something else rather than commenting on that in any depth.
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:56 pm

"Why not" is a weird response. So you're talking about "spiritual beings"? I don't buy that there are such things. (Though I'm a fan of the fantasy of it.)
Soon or late.
Huh?
Tell me where I was deviating from your commenting and I answer why I suggest a simpler solution.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:31 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:27 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:01 pm
You gave up. Our discussion is there waiting for your comment.
That's where I explained the problems with Bayesian probability, etc. the first time. You just moved on to something else rather than commenting on that in any depth.
Soon or late.
Huh?
Tell me where I was deviating from your commenting and I answer why I suggest a simpler solution.
I have no idea what thread that even was. It would take awhile to search for it at this point.
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bahman
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Re: God Infinity

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:54 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:31 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:27 pm
That's where I explained the problems with Bayesian probability, etc. the first time. You just moved on to something else rather than commenting on that in any depth.



Huh?
Tell me where I was deviating from your commenting and I answer why I suggest a simpler solution.
I have no idea what thread that even was. It would take awhile to search for it at this point.
It is here if you are still interested.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:48 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:54 pm
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:31 pm
Tell me where I was deviating from your commenting and I answer why I suggest a simpler solution.
I have no idea what thread that even was. It would take awhile to search for it at this point.
It is here if you are still interested.
Right, so trying to explain the issues to you, I asked:

"Are you disagreeing that you need to make all of the assumptions I listed?"

To which you responded, "I made our lives easier."

Which is no response. Read the assumptions I listed. Spend a few minutes thinking about them in context. Yes or no, do you agree that all of those assumptions would need to be made?
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bahman
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Re: God Infinity

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:48 pm
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:48 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:54 pm
I have no idea what thread that even was. It would take awhile to search for it at this point.
It is here if you are still interested.
Right, so trying to explain the issues to you, I asked:

"Are you disagreeing that you need to make all of the assumptions I listed?"

To which you responded, "I made our lives easier."

Which is no response. Read the assumptions I listed. Spend a few minutes thinking about them in context. Yes or no, do you agree that all of those assumptions would need to be made?
Please see my reply in another thread.
DPMartin
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Re: God Infinity

Post by DPMartin »

Ferdi wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:59 am Replace the notion of God by Infinity.
The label “God” has served its purpose. It needs updating. I suggest that it be replaced by Infinity, shortened to”Infy” for children. Infinity is the origin of everything in SPACE but during my 93 years I found it largely ignored. Peculiar, because Infinity has 2 spatial directions: large and small.
We are free to believe what we like. While beliefs serve a purpose, beliefs are not facts. We would not cross a road without believing the road to be clear. Science uses FACTS, but even scientific tests are preceded by scientist’s mere belief that something might be so. Research and tests are then used to prove that the believed assumption was either false or correct. During recent decades Science has taken increasingly larger strides. We can now walk on the moon and send investigative probes into space! Looking back to my childhood about the current Mobile ph driven teenagers: they can take not just photos but videos-with-sound and can instantly send such to anywhere in the world! The widening of our horizon has made religions less relevant, as shown by the dwindling church attendances. The TV, Movie and Sports industries are thriving on it, creating wealthy “Stars” and “Heroes”. Need I note that Professional sport is not sport; it is entertainment. Profit is the objective.
Our infinite Universe. Astronomy has increasingly widened our understanding of the universe. The Universe is INFINITE. The size of Infinity was made clear at school by taking any little stick, and in our mind doubling its length, again, and again, continue doubling it, longer and longer, until you realise that you are getting beyond our imagination and reaching into the endless INFINITY of the Universe. However, I have never been told, it appears commonly overlooked that there is another side to Infinity. Take your imagined stick again but this time break it in half, and keep breaking one half into smaller halves, again and again, smaller and smaller, the pieces will become too small to cut, too small to see, but we know that there is smaller than small. In fact it also will never come to an end in the endless “smaller aspect of infinity”. Thus: INFINITY is not just out there in Space beyond our Universe but also right here where we are. We live in it; it surrounds and penetrates us and everything. We stand with our feet on Planet Earth, held to the ground by its gravitational pull. Astronomy tells us that everything in Space is held in place by forces of the infinite Universe. Science suggests that there will have been a starting point in “time” when only a primordial atmosphere existed and that the first MATTER may eventually have formed from “non-matter”. Astronomical-spans-of-time later Life may have formed from the sun’s rays shining on some astronomical “soup”. During more astronomical-spans-of-time such LIFE evolved, successively at least into the variety of life that exists with us now on Planet Earth. It remains to be seen if there is life elsewhere in the Universe. The difficulty is that we do not know what forms of life there may be; some may be totally beyond our observation abilities.
Humans. We are all born with a free will, but we are not all born equal. We gradually become aware that our siblings and friends have different abilities and handicaps. The world produces leaders and followers, bosses and servants, have and have-nots, etc. We come to realise at some stage that we have landed on Planet Earth in an environment of which we had no choice, rich or poor, healthy or sick, clever or stupid and . . . . with whatever religious belief. Religious believers may mean well but may be wrong, which makes me writing this.
God. Where did the “God” concept come from? The word God, and its translations into other languages, is just a “label” which one of our earliest forefathers invented for the almighty powers behind natural events, invisible but omnipresent powers, beyond our comprehension. Natural phenomena like thunder and lightning gave rise to Gods-for-Volcanoes etc. and a plethora of religious beliefs. Some created an Almighty God as the Omnipresent Power.
Bibles. Historically, major events are noted in records. Thus our forefathers recorded their Almighty God beliefs in a “Bible” and other such Holy Books. The Adam & Eve story came from someone’s imagination. Objectively, these books are just like children’s Story Books with Fairy Tales, informing about good & bad; harmless, were it not for some fanatics who self-righteously promoted Biblical stories as facts. Such fanatic believers cause religious disputes. Some feel to have a God-given duty to kill infidels. History Books describe ”Holy Wars”. There are still plenty of religious zealots today who feel to have a God-given right to bully others, be it about abortion, homosexuals or allocated boundaries such as in the Middle East.
QED: it is time to eliminate the label “God” and to gradually replace that word by the more realistic “Infinity”, readily shortened to ”Infy” for children, as the origin of all and everything in the SPACE in which we live on planet Earth. It is essential to be aware that Infinity has 2 spatial directions: large and small.
I don't think so on the elimination of God. truth is forever, and always was forever, as in it always was true that the earth would be and and always will be true the earth was. what inhabits eternity is God by definition, as in Almighty. and the universe as far as science claims does not inhabit eternity according to their big bang theory. so even if you are going for godlessness and also claim there is an eternity, everything that is godless doesn't pass mustard for inhabiting eternity. so as i see it, there must be a God if there be an eternity. and the existence of truth proves there is an eternity.
Ferdi
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Ferdi »

DPMartin
I don't think so on the elimination of God. truth is forever, and always was forever, as in it always was true that the earth would be and and always will be true the earth was. what inhabits eternity is God by definition, as in Almighty. and the universe as far as science claims does not inhabit eternity according to their big bang theory. so even if you are going for godlessness and also claim there is an eternity, everything that is godless doesn't pass mustard for inhabiting eternity. so as i see it, there must be a God if there be an eternity. and the existence of truth proves there is an eternity.

Ferdi.
Are you labelling God as “truth is forever”.
Planet Earth may or may not be forever, it depends on what may happen in the Universe by disturbance of gravitational forces. The big-bang theory was a starting point, not an end.
What is your “truth” in relation to your God and eternity?
Infinity is an existing fact of the Universe, reaches both into the larger and the smaller directions.
Skepdick
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Skepdick »

Ferdi wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:26 am I don't think so on the elimination of God. truth is forever, and always was forever, as in it always was true that the earth would be and and always will be true the earth was.
In whose mind would the memory of Earth exist once Earth is gone?

Who would remember this "truth"?
Ferdi wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:26 am what inhabits eternity is God by definition, as in Almighty. and the universe as far as science claims does not inhabit eternity according to their big bang theory. so even if you are going for godlessness and also claim there is an eternity, everything that is godless doesn't pass mustard for inhabiting eternity. so as i see it, there must be a God if there be an eternity. and the existence of truth proves there is an eternity.
Ahhh. The eternalist dream. Some say it's just a form of escapism - remnant of a time by-gone when the non-eternal and ever-present temporal sucked.

Richard Rorty (1993) - Philosophy & Taking Time Seriously
Ferdi
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Ferdi »

Skepdick wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:20 am
Ferdi wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:26 am I don't think so on the elimination of God. truth is forever, and always was forever, as in it always was true that the earth would be and and always will be true the earth was.
In whose mind would the memory of Earth exist once Earth is gone?

Who would remember this "truth"?
Ferdi wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:26 am what inhabits eternity is God by definition, as in Almighty. and the universe as far as science claims does not inhabit eternity according to their big bang theory. so even if you are going for godlessness and also claim there is an eternity, everything that is godless doesn't pass mustard for inhabiting eternity. so as i see it, there must be a God if there be an eternity. and the existence of truth proves there is an eternity.
Ahhh. The eternalist dream. Some say it's just a form of escapism - remnant of a time by-gone when the non-eternal and ever-present temporal sucked.

Richard Rorty (1993) - Philosophy & Taking Time Seriously
I apologize for my entry here above at 6:20 pm. I somehow copied DPMartin's paragraph above my entry.
Ferdi
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Ferdi »

DPMartin wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:21 pm I don't think so on the elimination of God. truth is forever, and always was forever, as in it always was true that the earth would be and and always will be true the earth was. what inhabits eternity is God by definition, as in Almighty. and the universe as far as science claims does not inhabit eternity according to their big bang theory. so even if you are going for godlessness and also claim there is an eternity, everything that is godless doesn't pass mustard for inhabiting eternity. so as i see it, there must be a God if there be an eternity. and the existence of truth proves there is an eternity.
I apologise for having made a mess of the entries here above, including Skepdick's, by my inexperience of entering replies, but we live and learn from our mistakes.
For DPMartin, are you labelling God as “truth is forever”?
Planet Earth may or may not be forever, it depends on what may happen in the Universe by disturbance of gravitational forces. The big-bang theory was a starting point, not an end.
What is your “truth” in relation to your God and eternity?
Infinity is an existing fact of the Universe, reaches both into the larger and the smaller directions.
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VVilliam
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Re: God Infinity

Post by VVilliam »

"God" [it must be remembered] is a label for 'creator' which assumes we exist within a creation [rather than a random accident]

Christianity appropriated the label and used it for the name of their god. Thus "God" became an attempt to usurp any other ideas of god.

I do not think that IF there is a Creator [therefore we are within a creation] THEN we have uncovered the nature of said creator, whatever we call it [the being]

The word 'God' probably comes from the caveman days, along with the likes of "og" and "crog" etc... and simply meant "I don't know" in cave-language.

"Infinity" doesn't mean "I don't know" does it?

"God"
Ferdi
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Re: God Infinity

Post by Ferdi »

VVilliam wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:58 am "God" [it must be remembered] is a label for 'creator' which assumes we exist within a creation [rather than a random accident]

Christianity appropriated the label and used it for the name of their god. Thus "God" became an attempt to usurp any other ideas of god.

I do not think that IF there is a Creator [therefore we are within a creation] THEN we have uncovered the nature of said creator, whatever we call it [the being]

The word 'God' probably comes from the caveman days, along with the likes of "og" and "crog" etc... and simply meant "I don't know" in cave-language.

"Infinity" doesn't mean "I don't know" does it?

"God"
I know about Gods. For 70 of my 93 years I followed my indoctrinated Catholic beliefs while concentrating on earning a good living for my wife and 4 children. If I could start again, with the benefit of this hindsight, I would not have put any children in this world ruled by school-bullies. Even our best Democracy, the almighty USA is nothing to be proud of.
Infinity does not mean anything else than “you cannot reach the end of the Universe”. There is nothing to know about Infinity, it just IS and we are in it.
There are always questions of why is it so?
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VVilliam
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Re: God Infinity

Post by VVilliam »

Ferdi wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:45 am
VVilliam wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:58 am "God" [it must be remembered] is a label for 'creator' which assumes we exist within a creation [rather than a random accident]

Christianity appropriated the label and used it for the name of their god. Thus "God" became an attempt to usurp any other ideas of god.

I do not think that IF there is a Creator [therefore we are within a creation] THEN we have uncovered the nature of said creator, whatever we call it [the being]

The word 'God' probably comes from the caveman days, along with the likes of "og" and "crog" etc... and simply meant "I don't know" in cave-language.

"Infinity" doesn't mean "I don't know" does it?

"God"
I know about Gods. For 70 of my 93 years I followed my indoctrinated Catholic beliefs while concentrating on earning a good living for my wife and 4 children. If I could start again, with the benefit of this hindsight, I would not have put any children in this world ruled by school-bullies. Even our best Democracy, the almighty USA is nothing to be proud of.
Infinity does not mean anything else than “you cannot reach the end of the Universe”. There is nothing to know about Infinity, it just IS and we are in it.
There are always questions of why is it so?
The nature of this universe [specifically Earth] allows for bullies to take the reigns and it might be argued that if this wasn't the case then humanity would not have survived.
I am reminded of a doco I watched on the telly yesterday;

A full grown male lion dad killed a cub/kitten and the child wasn't even one of his own offspring and the mother was distressed for a time - even 'angry' in my opinion - because she is always more attached with the children.
But I also understood why the Male Lion had done this...it was to help protect the Pride. The overall family group. This child of a lioness had wandered well away from his mother and 5 other siblings, finding itself disorientated in the tall grass and they [cub/kitten and Lion] happened upon one another.

The Lion Slayed the Child. [it did not also eat the child]

The Pride cannot afford wanderers as these threaten everyone's survival and while the Lion was being a bully, he was performing this act for the greater good of the community. In that it was "duty".

I can certainly empathize with your sadness re bringing children onto such a reality experience, but hope that you do not settle for regret. While hindsight is a wonderful thing, when we are young we are led by our emotions and the demands of our bodies and breeding and the newness and excitement of it all - is part of that natural occurrence. Judging is best left to "the gods" because we do not know and are not in the best position to know.

I add to this the idea that if it were not for the Catholic Church you may not have been the husband and dad and may have just remained a happy bachelor feet up on some island resort, having no regrets.

But even to be that, you would have had to deal with bullies anyway.

So perhaps your feelings of regret are the result of leaving the Catholic Church and somehow in that act, also losing that support structure which allowed you to not regret your past decisions.

I don't know.

But what I do know is that you need to regain that sense of achievement and focus on the intent which has driven you through your life's experience. Don't let regret rob you of your contribution to life and die feeling that way if for no other reason than IF there is more to experience in an 'afterlife', how you feel about yourself [judge yourself] may have an affect on what your next experience will be like...

But don't let that scare you.

Be motivated just to embrace [own] the life you lived and find all those things within it which brought - not only you - but people you are connected with - Wife - Children- Grandies - etc and may your last sigh in life be one of contentment for that contribution regardless of whether there might be an afterlife or not.

Be remembered for that...and remember it for yourself while you still breathe.
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