The Death of Free Will

[Walker]

The world is full of involuntary ignorance masked and justified as willfulness.

So far all you've offered is need and ignorance.

[Nick_A]

The world is full of involuntary ignorance masked and justified as willfulness.

'involuntary ignorance?' Your trouble is that you are not "woke." If you were woke you would know what to condemn and rebel against. You need the free will to throw off the chains of doubt and become woke. Pick up a brick and break a window and free your woke self through this willful reaction.

[Arising_uk]

Or be a reactionary and make an a bomb out of an RV.

[Walker]

The world is full of involuntary ignorance masked and justified as willfulness.

'involuntary ignorance?' Your trouble is that you are not "woke." If you were woke you would know what to condemn and rebel against. You need the free will to throw off the chains of doubt and become woke. Pick up a brick and break a window and free your woke self through this willful reaction.

I don't get it, the whole thing. It's just a wall of blather. Rewrite it so that I do get it, because my ignorance is your responsibility Nick. You're the one responsible for my confusion. And if you can't do it to my satisfaction, then you said nothing. Nothing, you hear.



"I want to remember nothing. Nothing!"
- The Matrix

[Walker]

Or be a reactionary and make an a bomb out of an RV.

Nashville. A country singer reacting to rejection by the big stage?

[Nick_A]

Remember how you entered the room and sat at the computer. Was there any conscious self awareness or free will in it or did it just happen as if you were on automatic pilot?

can't speak for you, Nick...mebbe you have great stretches where you do indeed run on auto-pilot...me: I'm always aware of what I'm doin' and why...I'm always choosin', de-liberatin' myself

You are a good responsible person to your family. So for me you are worth more than some philosopher who is too cowardly to defend his family from attack.

Sometimes like on battlefield, a person can question why I m here leading to the question who am I? Am I really what does these things or do they just happen? This may be escapist fantasy or a search for truth. The point is that you lead a good life, why rock the boat?

There are some young eagles in the hen house whose hearts are being destroyed by the effects technology. My heart goes out to them since they are too young to understand how to deal with the blindness of the World and mature as intended by God. They are like exiles But they are few and far between. Since you value and defend your family, you are a step ahead IMO. First things first.

Simone Weil once said "When Gandhi can protect his sister from rape then I will be a pacifist." There is nothing unspiritual about defense in the World

[Immanuel Can]

Nashville. A country singer reacting to rejection by the big stage?

Angry music listener, having realized that Taylor Swift is very popular.

[henry quirk]

The point is that you lead a good life, why rock the boat?

define good life

I have my notions, you?

[Nick_A]

The point is that you lead a good life, why rock the boat?

define good life

I have my notions, you?

Someone living the good life basically lives by the golden rule: do on to others as you would have them do on to you. They have the humility to accept their responsibilities and haven't become emotionally obsessive over politics, religion, art or philosophy in ways that demean others. They will be looked down upon by the snobs as the great unwashed but in reality are for more sensible than the snobs who have become full of themselves In short, a person worth while saying good morning to

[henry quirk]

The point is that you lead a good life, why rock the boat?

define good life

I have my notions, you?

Someone living the good life basically lives by the golden rule: do on to others as you would have them do on to you. They have the humility to accept their responsibilities and haven't become emotionally obsessive over politics, religion, art or philosophy in ways that demean others. They will be looked down upon by the snobs as the great unwashed but in reality are for more sensible than the snobs who have become full of themselves In short, a person worth while saying good morning to

not too far from my own thinkin'...

[Walker]

Nashville. A country singer reacting to rejection by the big stage?

Angry music listener, having realized that Taylor Swift is very popular.

Gotta say, lotta class, and I think the meaning is clear.

[Nick_A]

The point is that you lead a good life, why rock the boat?

define good life

I have my notions, you?

Someone living the good life basically lives by the golden rule: do on to others as you would have them do on to you. They have the humility to accept their responsibilities and haven't become emotionally obsessive over politics, religion, art or philosophy in ways that demean others. They will be looked down upon by the snobs as the great unwashed but in reality are for more sensible than the snobs who have become full of themselves In short, a person worth while saying good morning to

not too far from my own thinkin'...

That's good to read. Now let me ask you if you consider yourself to be independent or part of a collective? This excerpt is from Jacob Needleman's book "The American Soul" which you would appreciate.

“With the nation, as with the self, it is a matter of how one is engaged with the world, not so much with the objects of these engagements. It is a matter of attitude, discernment and, above all, freedom from unbalanced emotion.”

“To be independent—in a human sense—is to have one’s own mind and conscience, to be capable of consulting one’s own understanding and one’s own unique feeling without imitation of others and without anxiety about what one imagines will be their opinions and reactions. Speaking in religious language, an individual is said to be independent when he is answerable only to God. Speaking the language of Deism and the Enlightenment, an individual is independent when he is answerable only to—in Franklin’s words—the “Father of Lights”….

If Prof. Needleman is right, if I want to be independent I must first be free of unbalanced emotions. Next I must feel free in consulting my own understanding rather than blindly following a collective. Next my conscience must be answerable to God first rather than the state and its laws when they re opposed. But how many can be independent?

Consider a young college girl who gets herself pregnant. All her friends and guidance councillors say get an abortion. Her conscience feels it is wrong. Can she have the free will so as to be be independent enough to stand up to the advice of friends and councillors, the college collective so to speak, and choose to be guided by "the "father of lights?"

Either way, independence is easier said than done.

[henry quirk]

Someone living the good life basically lives by the golden rule: do on to others as you would have them do on to you. They have the humility to accept their responsibilities and haven't become emotionally obsessive over politics, religion, art or philosophy in ways that demean others. They will be looked down upon by the snobs as the great unwashed but in reality are for more sensible than the snobs who have become full of themselves In short, a person worth while saying good morning to

not too far from my own thinkin'...

That's good to read. Now let me ask you if you consider yourself to be independent or part of a collective? This excerpt is from Jacob Needleman's book "The American Soul" which you would appreciate.

“With the nation, as with the self, it is a matter of how one is engaged with the world, not so much with the objects of these engagements. It is a matter of attitude, discernment and, above all, freedom from unbalanced emotion.”

“To be independent—in a human sense—is to have one’s own mind and conscience, to be capable of consulting one’s own understanding and one’s own unique feeling without imitation of others and without anxiety about what one imagines will be their opinions and reactions. Speaking in religious language, an individual is said to be independent when he is answerable only to God. Speaking the language of Deism and the Enlightenment, an individual is independent when he is answerable only to—in Franklin’s words—the “Father of Lights”….

If Prof. Needleman is right, if I want to be independent I must first be free of unbalanced emotions. Next I must feel free in consulting my own understanding rather than blindly following a collective. Next my conscience must be answerable to God first rather than the state and its laws when they re opposed. But how many can be independent?

Consider a young college girl who gets herself pregnant. All her friends and guidance councillors say get an abortion. Her conscience feels it is wrong. Can she have the free will so as to be be independent enough to stand up to the advice of friends and councillors, the college collective so to speak, and choose to be guided by "the "father of lights?"

Either way, independence is easier said than done.

oh, I go out of my way to self-direct ....can't see life is worth a sparrowfart if lived as a cog in someone else's machine

reason, conscience, god: I agree with the prof completely

the girl is a free will, but not particularly strong willed (gotta remember, choosin' to go along to get a long is still a choice [a bad one]) if she denies her conscience

and: father of lights...I like that

[Nick_A]

Henry

the girl is a free will, but not particularly strong willed (gotta remember, choosin' to go along to get a long is still a choice [a bad one]) if she denies her conscience

But isn't choosin to go along to get along just a reaction to a desire? Free will must be free and to be human must reflect human conscience. A man may be dedicated to and having the free will to murder women but without conscience, in reality it causes more harm than good.

In "Sketch of Contemporary Social Life" (1934), Simone Weil develops the theme of collectivism as the trajectory of modern culture.

"Never has the individual been so completely delivered up to a blind collectivity, and never have men been so less capable, not only of subordinating their actions to their thoughts, but even of thinking."

"When a man joins a political party, he submissively adopts a mental attitude which he will express later on with words such as, ‘As a monarchist, as a Socialist, I think that …’ It is so comfortable! It amounts to having no thoughts at all. Nothing is more comfortable than not having to think." Simone Weil

If she is right it means politics lack conscience, free will, and the ability to think out of their indoctrinated box. What does this say about the human potential for free will actualizing in the world dominated by politics?

[henry quirk]

But isn't choosin to go along to get along just a reaction to a desire?

I'm not a fan of JP, but he got this right: Man is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, he is responsible for everything he does.

no one gets a pass: no one gets to deny they choose...they may choose poorly, may choose for all the wrong reasons, but choose they do...and, always, they're responsible for that choice, any choice


Free will must be free and to be human must reflect human conscience. A man may be dedicated to and having the free will to murder women but without conscience, in reality it causes more harm than good.

that's the thing, Nick: if a will is free then it's free to choose wrong

if we declare that only good choice, or choice connected to conscience, reflects free will, then we gut the very notion of free will...we render man, robot

no, man is free all the time...it's his natural state...and it's a double-edged sword


If she is right it means politics lack conscience, free will, and the ability to think out of their indoctrinated box. What does this say about the human potential for free will actualizing in the world dominated by politics?

politics is sumthin' men do...it's an endeavor, it's propaganda, it's activity, and it's violence...of course politics lacks conscience and free will...only men have (are) those

one might say politics is the on-going consequence of bad choices, bad choices made by free wills