Secular worldview vs Christianity worldview

[Age]

As you may have known already, the word "worldview" came from the term "weltanschauung" which was used by Kant. Everyone has their own worldview which was usually affected greatly by the environment they live in.

A worldview must answer 5 theory which is the existence of God (theology), metaphysics, epistemology, axiology, and anthropology.
Almost all philosophers have addresses their perspective on these matters at least once in their lifetime.

In a christian worldview, all these 5 theories have been answered:
1. theology: Only one God exist (Trinity)
2. metaphysics: creatio ex nihilo
3. epistemology: God is the source of all information, man can understand God but not fully
4. Axiology: Initially God created man with moral but that moral was "disfigured" when man succumbs into sin
5. Anthropology: Man was created in the image of God and our purpose was to glorify him

In a sense I myself has a christian worldview but I am intrigued of what other people think of what a secular worldview is. In this 21st century, what is the secular worldview according to each of you (if possible link it to the 5 theory above).

Each of your answer will mean a lot to me as I want to expand my knowledge in philosophy.

Hi Cicero.

You seem to be concerned with how our universe works from a Christian worldview and compare it to secularism. For this IMO we must begin with the essential question of what the purpose of our universe is and Man's purpose within it.

If we, supposedly, 'must begin' with this, so called, "essential" question, then let us finish off by answering it, once and for ALL.

The purpose of thee Universe is to be able to observe Its own creation and be able to bear witness to Its own beauty.

Human beings purpose is to just make Life, Itself, better.

What is the meaning of 'Life', you may ask?

The meaning of 'Life' is just living; being alive. So, the purpose of human beings being here is to just make living, being alive, better. (There is, after all, obviously NO purpose in making Life worse).

The essence of Christianity offers a human being the possibility from a universal perspective of conscious EVOLUTION while secularism only offers the possibility for earthly mechanical ADAPTATION.

But, the possibility from the Universe's, or universal, perspective of conscious EVOLUTION comes from thee Universe, Itself, AND from, so called, "earthly mechanical ADAPTATION, and NOT solely from the alleged "essence of christianity".

The Universe's perspective of Consciousness comes from ALL things and not just some like "christianity".

Vertical evolution along the line of being or Horizontal adaptation along the line of secular knowledge: the Cross. Once a person begins to experience this, the mechanics of our universe begin to make sense.

So, what are 'the mechanics' of thee Universe?

And, how do those mechanics 'make sense', to you?

[PeteJ]

Vertical evolution along the line of being or Horizontal adaptation along the line of secular knowledge: the Cross. Once a person begins to experience this, the mechanics of our universe begin to make sense.

This is not my post!!!!

[Immanuel Can]

Hi, cicero:

You can do that more simply:

Anthropogyny, Teleology, Ethics. Those three will give you all the basic distinctive between worldviews. The rest are "accessories," because they are defined by the former three.

There are many such schemes that have been proposed. James Sire has a book on his version, called Naming the Elephant. But it, too, is more complicated than it needs to be in order to isolate the most important distinctives. His other book, The Universe Next Door, is more worth your time.

If you're seriously interested in worldviews, then from a Christian scholarship point of view, you need to look at Worldviews: The History of a Concept,by D. Naugle. That's probably the most important book on the subject.

[Age]

Vertical evolution along the line of being or Horizontal adaptation along the line of secular knowledge: the Cross. Once a person begins to experience this, the mechanics of our universe begin to make sense.

This is not my post!!!!

I apologize profusely. My mistake.

[Age]

As you may have known already, the word "worldview" came from the term "weltanschauung" which was used by Kant. Everyone has their own worldview which was usually affected greatly by the environment they live in.

When you say, " Everyone's own worldview is "usually" affected "greatly" by the environment they live in ", is there anything else that could affect one's own worldview other than "the environment they live in"?

If yes, then what is that or what are they?

A worldview must answer 5 theory which is the existence of God (theology), metaphysics, epistemology, axiology, and anthropology.
Almost all philosophers have addresses their perspective on these matters at least once in their lifetime.

In a christian worldview, all these 5 theories have been answered:
1. theology: Only one God exist (Trinity)
2. metaphysics: creatio ex nihilo
3. epistemology: God is the source of all information, man can understand God but not fully
4. Axiology: Initially God created man with moral but that moral was "disfigured" when man succumbs into sin
5. Anthropology: Man was created in the image of God and our purpose was to glorify him

In a sense I myself has a christian worldview but I am intrigued of what other people think of what a secular worldview is. In this 21st century, what is the secular worldview according to each of you (if possible link it to the 5 theory above).

Each of your answer will mean a lot to me as I want to expand my knowledge in philosophy.

The, so called, "secular worldview" I have is:
1. Only ONE God exists, by definition.
2. Continual change, or Reaction, which is just 'creation in action', or just evolution.
3. Human beings can, and some do, understand God FULLY.
4. Human beings evolved instinctively KNOWING what is morally right and wrong, and still do. Human beings, however, just began 'sinning', which just means missing the mark, and so human beings lost the ability to consciously remember what is morally right and wrong. The ability to recall back what is instinctively KNOWN though, is gradually returning.
5. EVERY thing is created, and evolves, in, and into, the image of God.

ANY and ALL clarifying questions most welcomed, and, ANY and ALL explanations of WHY any of this is false, wrong, or incorrect will be most appreciated.

[Age]

Hi, cicero:

You can do that more simply:

Anthropogyny, Teleology, Ethics. Those three will give you all the basic distinctive between worldviews.

So, what is the "basic distinction between worldviews" from your (world) view?

Just writing those three words and then telling us that those three words will give us ALL the basic distinctive between worldviews is not true at all.

I could obtain countless different sources of information regarding those three words, and the chances that any two of them, under the same word, are the EXACT SAME is highly unlikely. So, if you did what the one who posted the opening post did and provided your OWN perspective of this, which is what they were asking for and just seeking anyway, then we WILL understand what you are actually referring to, and meaning here.

Until then, I at least, have absolutely NO idea what you actually referring to.

The rest are "accessories," because they are defined by the former three.

There are many such schemes that have been proposed. James Sire has a book on his version, called Naming the Elephant. But it, too, is more complicated than it needs to be in order to isolate the most important distinctives. His other book, The Universe Next Door, is more worth your time.

To me, you, also, are making it far more complicated than it needs to be, evidenced by adding three more words into the equation, with countless possible undisclosed definitions and explanations for those words.

If you're seriously interested in worldviews, then from a Christian scholarship point of view, you need to look at Worldviews: The History of a Concept,by D. Naugle. That's probably the most important book on the subject.

I think you MISSED what that person was seriously interested in. They were seriously interested in YOUR view of what a 'secular worldview' is.

Unless of course I have gotten this WRONG, and, if I have, then I hope I will be CORRECTED.

By the way if you think you are going to find another human being with the EXACT SAME, so called, "christian worldview" as yours, then I think you will find that you probably will not anyway.

[Immanuel Can]

Hi, cicero:

You can do that more simply:

Anthropogyny, Teleology, Ethics. Those three will give you all the basic distinctive between worldviews.

So, what is the "basic distinction between worldviews" from your (world) view?

Just writing those three words and then telling us that those three words will give us ALL the basic distinctive between worldviews is not true at all.

I was speaking to cicero. He seems to have some familiarity with the idea of worldviews, so I did not feel it necessary to supply all the details I would supply to somebody who'd never encountered the concept before.

His summary of the Christian suppositions is adequate, but missing a few things: most importantly, teleology, which for the Christian is eternal.

The rest are "accessories," because they are defined by the former three.

There are many such schemes that have been proposed. James Sire has a book on his version, called Naming the Elephant. But it, too, is more complicated than it needs to be in order to isolate the most important distinctives. His other book, The Universe Next Door, is more worth your time.

To me, you, also, are making it far more complicated than it needs to be, evidenced by adding three more words into the equation, with countless possible undisclosed definitions and explanations for those words.

Those words can be very simply explained.

Anthropogyny -- where did human beings come from?

Teleology -- to what 'end' do human beings go?

Ethics -- in the meanwhile, what is 'the good life'?

If you're seriously interested in worldviews, then from a Christian scholarship point of view, you need to look at Worldviews: The History of a Concept,by D. Naugle. That's probably the most important book on the subject.

I think you MISSED what that person was seriously interested in.

Cicero? No, I think I know what he's interested in. That's why I suggested those books.

[gaffo]

As you may have known already, the word "worldview" came from the term "weltanschauung" which was used by Kant. Everyone has their own worldview which was usually affected greatly by the environment they live in.

A worldview must answer 5 theory which is the existence of God (theology), metaphysics, epistemology, axiology, and anthropology.
Almost all philosophers have addresses their perspective on these matters at least once in their lifetime.

In a christian worldview, all these 5 theories have been answered:
1. theology: Only one God exist (Trinity)

why do you negate 1/5 of the world population?

no Hindus were ever Philosophers?

if no Indians were ever, do tell me, so i can learn of this.

[Age]

Hi, cicero:

You can do that more simply:

Anthropogyny, Teleology, Ethics. Those three will give you all the basic distinctive between worldviews.

So, what is the "basic distinction between worldviews" from your (world) view?

Just writing those three words and then telling us that those three words will give us ALL the basic distinctive between worldviews is not true at all.

I was speaking to cicero. He seems to have some familiarity with the idea of worldviews, so I did not feel it necessary to supply all the details I would supply to somebody who'd never encountered the concept before.

But how do you KNOW what concepts ANY one "else" has encountered if they have NOT YET expressed to you what they have?

What 'seems' to be the case to you does NOT necessarily mean that it is. Also, and further to this, even when "another" has encountered any concept before, there is NO way of KNOWING what the ACTUAL concept and idea is remotely even close to YOUR concept and idea.

His summary of the Christian suppositions is adequate, but missing a few things: most importantly, teleology, which for the Christian is eternal.

So, do you BELIEVE you are THE ONE to speak for "christianity" or for ALL "christians".

Although "cicero117" INCORRECTLY claims that what they wrote is a "christian" worldview, you to are also doing the EXACT SAME thing. That is; INCORRECTLY claiming that you KNOW what the actual "christian" worldview IS.

The rest are "accessories," because they are defined by the former three.

There are many such schemes that have been proposed. James Sire has a book on his version, called Naming the Elephant. But it, too, is more complicated than it needs to be in order to isolate the most important distinctives. His other book, The Universe Next Door, is more worth your time.

To me, you, also, are making it far more complicated than it needs to be, evidenced by adding three more words into the equation, with countless possible undisclosed definitions and explanations for those words.

Those words can be very simply explained.

Anthropogyny -- where did human beings come from?

ALREADY ANSWERED and KNOWN.

But 'sufficiently or not' is depended upon the observer, them 'self'.

Teleology -- to what 'end' do human beings go?

What do you mean and are asking here?

Human beings will end up where they do, which will be living in peace and harmony with one "another", as One.

Ethics -- in the meanwhile, what is 'the good life'?

Absolutely EVERY thing is relative to the observer. 'you' are an observer. So, what is the, so called, "good life" is solely relative to, and depended upon, 'you'. Therefore, 'you' ALREADY KNOW what the answer IS.

Now, to me, you seem to have REALLY twisted things around now, from what you were saying and claiming previously.

Before, you were claiming that you could do MORE SIMPLY provide the, so called, "christian" worldview with just:
"Anthropogyny, Teleology, Ethics." And that, "Those three will give you all the basic distinctive between worldviews."

But now, you have twisted this around and are saying that those three things are questions, posed for answering, which, to me, instead of making 'more simple' ONLY 'complicates' things fare more than they need to be.

If you're seriously interested in worldviews, then from a Christian scholarship point of view, you need to look at Worldviews: The History of a Concept,by D. Naugle. That's probably the most important book on the subject.

I think you MISSED what that person was seriously interested in.

Cicero? No, I think I know what he's interested in. That's why I suggested those books.

You appear to NOT be open anything else here. You appear to KNOW what the "other" person is actually interested in, correct?

To me, "cicero117" was ASKING FOR what "other" people, [or what 'you'], think of what a "secular" worldview is.

But we both can ONLY KNOW what the actual Truth IS, from clarification from "cicero117" them 'self', correct?

Or, do you BELIEVE that you ALREADY KNOW what the Truth is here?

I am very happy to WAIT and SEE, even if you are NOT.

[cicero117]

When you say, " Everyone's own worldview is "usually" affected "greatly" by the environment they live in ", is there anything else that could affect one's own worldview other than "the environment they live in"?

If yes, then what is that or what are they?

In my opinion, aside from "the environment" their own ideas and the personality they inherited from their parents. According to science, humans are born with unique personality of their own, the environment they live in may contribute to the development of their personality, or regression in some case. But IMO, although environment does matter, in the end of the day you're the one who decides the way you think.

The, so called, "secular worldview" I have is:
1. Only ONE God exists, by definition.
2. Continual change, or Reaction, which is just 'creation in action', or just evolution.
3. Human beings can, and some do, understand God FULLY.
4. Human beings evolved instinctively KNOWING what is morally right and wrong, and still do. Human beings, however, just began 'sinning', which just means missing the mark, and so human beings lost the ability to consciously remember what is morally right and wrong. The ability to recall back what is instinctively KNOWN though, is gradually returning.
5. EVERY thing is created, and evolves, in, and into, the image of God.

ANY and ALL clarifying questions most welcomed, and, ANY and ALL explanations of WHY any of this is false, wrong, or incorrect will be most appreciated.

In your third point "Human beings can, and some do, understand God FULLY.", can you prove that statement?
I have a christian background so I will support my argument with the bible. First and foremost, I believe that since the fall of human, we are "broken" and though Jesus had atone our sin, it's still impossible to understand Him fully since we can still sin (I believe the term is "already but not yet" )and only when the second coming has been fulfilled, we can understand Him fully.

"Behold, these are but the outskirts of his ways, and how small a whisper do we hear of him! But the thunder of his power who can understand? " Job 26:14

Job provided an extensive information regarding this issue, when God "showed" Job how great is the world by telling (showing?) him about the creature he has never seen and all constellations in the world. It is after this that Job realized how small he is and how he can't understand the "great plan" of God.

I will not provide other explanation as the main reason is set on the same basis but other verses that support this fact are:

"Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! tHow unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!" Romans 11:33

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9


For now that's my answer, if I have made some mistakes or error, critics and inputs are welcomed.

[cicero117]

Hi, cicero:

You can do that more simply:

Anthropogyny, Teleology, Ethics. Those three will give you all the basic distinctive between worldviews. The rest are "accessories," because they are defined by the former three.

There are many such schemes that have been proposed. James Sire has a book on his version, called Naming the Elephant. But it, too, is more complicated than it needs to be in order to isolate the most important distinctives. His other book, The Universe Next Door, is more worth your time.

If you're seriously interested in worldviews, then from a Christian scholarship point of view, you need to look at Worldviews: The History of a Concept,by D. Naugle. That's probably the most important book on the subject.

Sorry to dissappoint but I am stil a newbie in this "worldview" matter, at least to my standards..
I recognize those three philosophy but I am still unable to connect the correlation between those three philosophy and the five basic principles of a worldview that I stated in the start of this discussion, if it is convenient for you, can you please elaborate deeper?


Although Age's comment about how you missed the point of this discussion is correct (which is for you to state your views on the five elements of a worldview) but I greatly respect your book recommendation, especially "Worldviews: The History of a Concept". As reading the original texts of philosopher usually results in confusion and misinterpretation, I favour books that has dissect the philosophers way of thinking since it's easier to read. But I still fancy direct translation from time to time, depending on the subject.

Once again thank you.

[Age]

When you say, " Everyone's own worldview is "usually" affected "greatly" by the environment they live in ", is there anything else that could affect one's own worldview other than "the environment they live in"?

If yes, then what is that or what are they?

In my opinion, aside from "the environment" their own ideas and the personality they inherited from their parents.

But where did those ideas come from?

Are 'ideas' not just a part of, and make up, a 'worldview' anyway?

According to science, humans are born with unique personality of their own, the environment they live in may contribute to the development of their personality, or regression in some case. But IMO, although environment does matter, in the end of the day you're the one who decides the way you think.

I prefer to not go on what just people say, but rather on what actual evidence and proof there actually is.

Also, there is nothing "according to science", but rather through a scientific process human beings, themselves, come to or arrive at conclusions, which, by the way, are not always necessarily true, right, nor correct.

Also, are you able to elaborate on who or what is the 'one' who supposedly decides the way 'it' thinks?

If yes, then will 'you'?

The, so called, "secular worldview" I have is:
1. Only ONE God exists, by definition.
2. Continual change, or Reaction, which is just 'creation in action', or just evolution.
3. Human beings can, and some do, understand God FULLY.
4. Human beings evolved instinctively KNOWING what is morally right and wrong, and still do. Human beings, however, just began 'sinning', which just means missing the mark, and so human beings lost the ability to consciously remember what is morally right and wrong. The ability to recall back what is instinctively KNOWN though, is gradually returning.
5. EVERY thing is created, and evolves, in, and into, the image of God.

ANY and ALL clarifying questions most welcomed, and, ANY and ALL explanations of WHY any of this is false, wrong, or incorrect will be most appreciated.

In your third point "Human beings can, and some do, understand God FULLY.", can you prove that statement?

Yes.

I have a christian background so I will support my argument with the bible. First and foremost, I believe that since the fall of human, we are "broken" and though Jesus had atone our sin, it's still impossible to understand Him fully since we can still sin (I believe the term is "already but not yet" )and only when the second coming has been fulfilled, we can understand Him fully.

But, to some, the second coming has ALREADY been fulfilled.

"Behold, these are but the outskirts of his ways, and how small a whisper do we hear of him! But the thunder of his power who can understand? " Job 26:14

Job provided an extensive information regarding this issue, when God "showed" Job how great is the world by telling (showing?) him about the creature he has never seen and all constellations in the world. It is after this that Job realized how small he is and how he can't understand the "great plan" of God.

I will not provide other explanation as the main reason is set on the same basis but other verses that support this fact are:

"Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! tHow unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!" Romans 11:33

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9


For now that's my answer, if I have made some mistakes or error, critics and inputs are welcomed.

The only mistake you have made here is BELIEVING some thing solely on the basis of hearing or reading it from your own or form "other" human being's thoughts, and interpretations.

As you have already been informed, and warned, that 'your' human thoughts are NOT God's thoughts. So, what 'you' think or believe is true may NOT be God's Truth at all.

[surreptitious57]

A worldview must answer 5 theory which is the existence of God ( theology ) metaphysics - epistemology - axiology and anthropology
Almost all philosophers have addresses their perspective on these matters at least once in their lifetime

In a christian worldview all these 5 theories have been answered :
I Theology : Only one God exist ( Trinity )
2 Metaphysics : creatio ex nihilo
3 Epistemology : God is the source of all information man can understand God but not fully
4 Axiology : Initially God created man with moral but that moral was disfigured when man succumbs into sin
5 Anthropology : Man was created in the image of God and our purpose was to glorify him

In a sense I myself has a christian worldview but I am intrigued of what other people think of what a secular worldview is
In this 2Ist century what is the secular worldview according to each of you ( if possible link it to the 5 theory above )

Each of your answer will mean a lot to me as I want to expand my knowledge in philosophy

I Theology - impossible to know
2 Metaphysics - existence is eternal
3 Epistemology - knowledge is human
4 Axiology - morality comes from evolutionary psychology
5 Anthropology - all purpose is subjective to the individual

[cicero117]

A worldview must answer 5 theory which is the existence of God ( theology ) metaphysics - epistemology - axiology and anthropology
Almost all philosophers have addresses their perspective on these matters at least once in their lifetime

In a christian worldview all these 5 theories have been answered :
I Theology : Only one God exist ( Trinity )
2 Metaphysics : creatio ex nihilo
3 Epistemology : God is the source of all information man can understand God but not fully
4 Axiology : Initially God created man with moral but that moral was disfigured when man succumbs into sin
5 Anthropology : Man was created in the image of God and our purpose was to glorify him

In a sense I myself has a christian worldview but I am intrigued of what other people think of what a secular worldview is
In this 2Ist century what is the secular worldview according to each of you ( if possible link it to the 5 theory above )

Each of your answer will mean a lot to me as I want to expand my knowledge in philosophy

I Theology - impossible to know
2 Metaphysics - existence is eternal
3 Epistemology - knowledge is human
4 Axiology - morality comes from evolutionary psychology
5 Anthropology - all purpose is subjective to the individual

Do you think the theology part can be applied to everyone or only theist? But, doesn't atheist also have an understanding of God although they do not believe in one?