Are You Enjoying You Life?

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gaffo
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by gaffo » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:28 am

RCSaunders wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:56 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:25 pm
Thanks for reply Sir, and you and i fully argee - esp "get out while you can" - per Germany in the early 30's - Jew/and others Gypies died too (we always forget about then - they do not have their own AIPAC so are forgotten sadly) - had 4-6 yrs to get out (the smart ones (assuming they the ability to get a visa - to so cost more money than most Gypsies had, so were fucked - but ya if you had the funds to get out when you could, a wise person would (and many did)).

per Ruwanda, well...........that whole shit-show happened so fast (2- months or so) - most there was fucked before they saw what was happening (imo).

per "the collective", i affirm this and i get the impression you do not? ie. I support "The collective" mindset if it is in support of a good society, i.e. like the "Western societies" - which requires an informed public with a civic mindset that challenges authority as legitmate over thugger authority.

sadly i fear most Americans (note sure about Canucks/Brits/etc..) seem to have lost both a sense of the "collective" - via Good Citizenship (which means being informed, and caring about the society that live in and a will to make sure it remains a good society) - verses and "i got mine, me, me, and me, I'm ok, so i do not care if my society goes to shit because i can just "get out of here" when the shit hits the fan.

so a applaud your individualism mindset - I too am an Individualist (Liberal Libertarian in fact) - but also do not think "all men should be an island", but be an individual in a society that affirms your rights as a person, while supporting/working to make the collective society you live in good/better than it was.
I'm glad you mentioned the Roma (gypsies) which have sadly been neglected and are still persecuted in many parts of Europe, and their entire history is mostly unknown to most. As far as I know, the are Arian and originally from Northern India which explains their unique language and culture. People who are different and independent are always hated.
Yes, they are believed to have migrated from India/Pakistan millia (millia or centuries? - honest asking here, for not read of "when they were believed to have migrated into Europe, and as one that values education, if you know the timeline, i welcome being educated on it) ago. I would assume someone by now - 40 yrs later or so - may have had an interest and funds to do a few 10's or 100's to DNA tests to confirm - but know the Roma are poor and lack a Lobby in thier intere$t - so maybe no tests have been made to confirm said theory.

a theory i see no reason to not think valid personally.

thanks for reply and you being informed about the Roma.

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RCSaunders
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by RCSaunders » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:03 am

gaffo wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:28 am
RCSaunders wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:56 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:25 pm
Thanks for reply Sir, and you and i fully argee - esp "get out while you can" - per Germany in the early 30's - Jew/and others Gypies died too (we always forget about then - they do not have their own AIPAC so are forgotten sadly) - had 4-6 yrs to get out (the smart ones (assuming they the ability to get a visa - to so cost more money than most Gypsies had, so were fucked - but ya if you had the funds to get out when you could, a wise person would (and many did)).

per Ruwanda, well...........that whole shit-show happened so fast (2- months or so) - most there was fucked before they saw what was happening (imo).

per "the collective", i affirm this and i get the impression you do not? ie. I support "The collective" mindset if it is in support of a good society, i.e. like the "Western societies" - which requires an informed public with a civic mindset that challenges authority as legitmate over thugger authority.

sadly i fear most Americans (note sure about Canucks/Brits/etc..) seem to have lost both a sense of the "collective" - via Good Citizenship (which means being informed, and caring about the society that live in and a will to make sure it remains a good society) - verses and "i got mine, me, me, and me, I'm ok, so i do not care if my society goes to shit because i can just "get out of here" when the shit hits the fan.

so a applaud your individualism mindset - I too am an Individualist (Liberal Libertarian in fact) - but also do not think "all men should be an island", but be an individual in a society that affirms your rights as a person, while supporting/working to make the collective society you live in good/better than it was.
I'm glad you mentioned the Roma (gypsies) which have sadly been neglected and are still persecuted in many parts of Europe, and their entire history is mostly unknown to most. As far as I know, the are Arian and originally from Northern India which explains their unique language and culture. People who are different and independent are always hated.
Yes, they are believed to have migrated from India/Pakistan millia (millia or centuries? - honest asking here, for not read of "when they were believed to have migrated into Europe, and as one that values education, if you know the timeline, i welcome being educated on it) ago. I would assume someone by now - 40 yrs later or so - may have had an interest and funds to do a few 10's or 100's to DNA tests to confirm - but know the Roma are poor and lack a Lobby in thier intere$t - so maybe no tests have been made to confirm said theory.

a theory i see no reason to not think valid personally.

thanks for reply and you being informed about the Roma.
The following is from a long research paper I did on Racism and Anti-Semitism in 2006:
Persecution of Roma

Roma persecution is recorded from as early as the fifteenth century, but the systematic persecution begins with the deportation orders issued by Bismarck in 1870.

According to the Institute for Jewish Policy Research policy paper "The Roma/Gypsies of Europe: a persecuted people," by Margaret Brearley, "From 1934 onwards some German Gypsies were forced into policed settlements. ... Late in 1938 the first racial law against Roma and Sinti, 'Fight against the Gypsy Menace', was enacted ....

"In 1940, 3,000 German and Austrian Roma and Sinti were deported to Polish camps or ghettos; the remaining 27,000 continued to be forced into holding camps. Following the German occupation of Austria in 1938, Austrian Roma were sent to work camps, concentration camps (e.g. Ravensbruck, Mauthausen and Buchenwald) or to a special Roma camp in Lackenbach. Roma in territories annexed or conquered by Germany were subject to similar treatment. Some fascist governments allied to Germany (particularly Croatia, Slovakia and Romania) initiated persecution of Roma without apparent pressure from Germany.

"The decision to annihilate all Roma was probably taken in mid-1942, after the Wannsee conference. ... by January 1942 several thousand Roma had been gassed in closed vans at Chelmno. Because records are incomplete and the statistics disputed, estimates of the total number of Sinti, Roma and part-Sinti murdered in the Holocaust vary from 200,000-500,000. Auschwitz-Birkenau contained a special Roma camp, where families were kept together, probably in order to forestall revolt. At least 19,000 were murdered or died there. Many Roma not allocated to the special camp also died in Auschwitz. Thousands of Romanies were killed in Belscn and Buchenwald and in extermination camps, including Belzec, Sobibor, Majdanek and Treblinka. Many were subjected to inhumane experimentation at Dachau (salt injections), Natzweiler (typhus injections), Sachsenhausen (mustard gas) and elsewhere. In Auschwitz Dr Mengele selected many Romanies, including children, for experimentation. Many Roma men, women and teenagers underwent forced sterilization.

"While over half of all German, Czech, Austrian, Latvian and Polish Roma died, some communities suffered even heavier losses. Virtually all Roma in Belgium, Holland, Estonia and Lithuania were annihilated, as were those in Croatia, where the Catholic-supported fascist Ustasa perpetrated mass atrocities against the Roma. Roma communities in the USSR, Romania, Serbia and Hungary each lost thousands, massacred by the Nazis."
I seldom recommend Wikipedia but the History of the Romani people and Romani people pages are quite good.

Hope that's interesting.

gaffo
Posts: 3199
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by gaffo » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:34 pm

RCSaunders wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:03 am
gaffo wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:28 am
RCSaunders wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:56 am

I'm glad you mentioned the Roma (gypsies) which have sadly been neglected and are still persecuted in many parts of Europe, and their entire history is mostly unknown to most. As far as I know, the are Arian and originally from Northern India which explains their unique language and culture. People who are different and independent are always hated.
Yes, they are believed to have migrated from India/Pakistan millia (millia or centuries? - honest asking here, for not read of "when they were believed to have migrated into Europe, and as one that values education, if you know the timeline, i welcome being educated on it) ago. I would assume someone by now - 40 yrs later or so - may have had an interest and funds to do a few 10's or 100's to DNA tests to confirm - but know the Roma are poor and lack a Lobby in thier intere$t - so maybe no tests have been made to confirm said theory.

a theory i see no reason to not think valid personally.

thanks for reply and you being informed about the Roma.
The following is from a long research paper I did on Racism and Anti-Semitism in 2006:
Persecution of Roma

Roma persecution is recorded from as early as the fifteenth century, but the systematic persecution begins with the deportation orders issued by Bismarck in 1870.

According to the Institute for Jewish Policy Research policy paper "The Roma/Gypsies of Europe: a persecuted people," by Margaret Brearley, "From 1934 onwards some German Gypsies were forced into policed settlements. ... Late in 1938 the first racial law against Roma and Sinti, 'Fight against the Gypsy Menace', was enacted ....

"In 1940, 3,000 German and Austrian Roma and Sinti were deported to Polish camps or ghettos; the remaining 27,000 continued to be forced into holding camps. Following the German occupation of Austria in 1938, Austrian Roma were sent to work camps, concentration camps (e.g. Ravensbruck, Mauthausen and Buchenwald) or to a special Roma camp in Lackenbach. Roma in territories annexed or conquered by Germany were subject to similar treatment. Some fascist governments allied to Germany (particularly Croatia, Slovakia and Romania) initiated persecution of Roma without apparent pressure from Germany.

"The decision to annihilate all Roma was probably taken in mid-1942, after the Wannsee conference. ... by January 1942 several thousand Roma had been gassed in closed vans at Chelmno. Because records are incomplete and the statistics disputed, estimates of the total number of Sinti, Roma and part-Sinti murdered in the Holocaust vary from 200,000-500,000. Auschwitz-Birkenau contained a special Roma camp, where families were kept together, probably in order to forestall revolt. At least 19,000 were murdered or died there. Many Roma not allocated to the special camp also died in Auschwitz. Thousands of Romanies were killed in Belscn and Buchenwald and in extermination camps, including Belzec, Sobibor, Majdanek and Treblinka. Many were subjected to inhumane experimentation at Dachau (salt injections), Natzweiler (typhus injections), Sachsenhausen (mustard gas) and elsewhere. In Auschwitz Dr Mengele selected many Romanies, including children, for experimentation. Many Roma men, women and teenagers underwent forced sterilization.

"While over half of all German, Czech, Austrian, Latvian and Polish Roma died, some communities suffered even heavier losses. Virtually all Roma in Belgium, Holland, Estonia and Lithuania were annihilated, as were those in Croatia, where the Catholic-supported fascist Ustasa perpetrated mass atrocities against the Roma. Roma communities in the USSR, Romania, Serbia and Hungary each lost thousands, massacred by the Nazis."
I seldom recommend Wikipedia but the History of the Romani people and Romani people pages are quite good.

Hope that's interesting.
Thanks for the education, and thanks you for posting your rearch/paper/credentals. as you may know i lack them, just a self informed person on the matters we are talking about. thanks to the interent - all is there to self educate on anything/everything, if one has the interest! - as you and i do (and many more folks as well -- more that do the better) I hate social media/facebook/etc........the worst of the internet - just a noisy eco-chamber, but i do love Wikipedia (I actually contributed to a detail about the actress Jan Francis, which did not mention she was in an episode of the 70's brit show Raffles, just edited that page to include her in that episode, which was not noted).

Wikipedia, Internet Archive, Youtube (if you know what is good there and what is crap - and choose the good (The Great War channel for instance) and the old Usenet are the best of the internet, the rest is crap sadly.


per your 2006 paper, thanks for the use of the word "occupation" per Austria, and though 45? percent of the Austrians were German (not all of them would have taken kindly of Germany taking their nation Austria, though most prob would - sadly) - the remaining 55? percent did not! so thanks for not using the word "annexation" instead.

and "Senti" - as one ignorant, i must say i do not know this word or those people, and welcome education on the matter.

thanks for the civil and informed reply Sir.

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RCSaunders
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by RCSaunders » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:17 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:34 pm
and "Senti" - as one ignorant, i must say i do not know this word or those people, and welcome education on the matter.

thanks for the civil and informed reply Sir.
Your welcome!

The Sinti are a subset of Gypsies, similar to Roma with a slightly different language and possible original migration. Try these: "Roma, Sinti, Kale, Manouches, Romaniche," and Sinti & Roma--The 'Gypsies'

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