Are You Enjoying Your Life?

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Sculptor
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by Sculptor »

RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:32 pm If you are not enjoying your life there is something wrong with your philosophy.
People can have marvelous philosophies and never follow them. The angst of living is most often because of a series of duties and obligations that people accept through social and peer pressure that often fly against their own inclinations and philosophical ideas.

It is rare to find a person who perfectly exemplifies a seamless bond between their beliefs and their behaviours.

Compromise is important. For example; as I do not wish to live alone, and the prospect of finding a woman who is perfectly matched to my every need is limited, I have to put up with stuff I'd rather not have to. And thinking about it, a woman matched perfectly to my every need would probably be soon boring.

Then there are those whose philosophy is wrong, dead wrong, hopelessly misguided on a number of levels and despite this, even because of it, they are as happy as Larry.
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

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Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:24 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:32 pm If you are not enjoying your life there is something wrong with your philosophy.
People can have marvelous philosophies and never follow them. The angst of living is most often because of a series of duties and obligations that people accept through social and peer pressure that often fly against their own inclinations and philosophical ideas.

It is rare to find a person who perfectly exemplifies a seamless bond between their beliefs and their behaviours.

Compromise is important. For example; as I do not wish to live alone, and the prospect of finding a woman who is perfectly matched to my every need is limited, I have to put up with stuff I'd rather not have to. And thinking about it, a woman matched perfectly to my every need would probably be soon boring.

Then there are those whose philosophy is wrong, dead wrong, hopelessly misguided on a number of levels and despite this, even because of it, they are as happy as Larry.
It is not possible to know whether someone else is enjoying there life, as I explained in my previous post to VA. I never said a right philosophy automatically resulted in a life that is enjoyed, only that one who is not enjoying their life has a wrong philosophy.

Just because one looks happy to you, or claims to be enjoying their life, does not mean they are. Expressions like, "happy as a clam," and, "fat, dumb, and happy," and, "ignorance is bliss," describe states that are truly not successful human states as though they were.

The point is not to judge whether someone else is enjoying their life (which we really can't know) but to ensure our own lives are lived successfully. You don't sound like a failure or unhappy to me. To whatever extent your philosophy, the beliefs you base your choices on, determines your choices, it must be correct.
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

RCSaunders wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:12 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:25 am Nero, Caligula, Hitler and their likes would have claimed they enjoyed their life.
You cannot possibly know what Nero, Caligula, Hitler, or anyone else would claim, of course, but if you think they could possibly believe they were enjoying their lives, it certainly says something about you and what you think enjoying life is.

If you believe Nero, Caligula, and Hitler could regard the life they lived as enjoying life, you must believe you could enjoy that kind of life, because that kind of life can be enjoyed by a human being. Which also says something about what you think of human beings.

When I say, "If you are not enjoying your life there is something wrong with your philosophy," I do not mean deluded into thinking you are enjoying life, but actually enjoying it as a human being. The kind of lives Nero, Caligula, Hitler, or any other atrocity committing tyrant or gangster lived cannot possibly be enjoyed as a human being, no matter what they might claim or believe.

Enjoyment is neither experience or pleasure. Life is not what happens to someone, things happen to a rock. Life is action and one's life consists of what they do, and it is what one does that one must be able to enjoy.

One's enjoyment of life is one's appreciation of what one has achieved and made of one's self, what they have accomplished and become because of their own choices and efforts. One cannot enjoy a life that is a failure, one cannot appreciate never having produced anything of value, never having achieved anything difficult, never having overcome a difficulty or solved a problem or never having learned anything worth knowing. That is a life wasted, not enjoyed; it is a life that can only result in regret and despair, no matter how much wealth is accumulated or pleasure is experienced.

The hedonistic pleasures of the vicious (those without virtues) or empty meaningless pleasures that provide a momentary escape from the consciousness of one's own wasted life without any long term satisfaction. The pleasures of the virtuous are a reward for living life as required by human nature and provide satisfaction that is both short-term and long-term.

If you are not enjoying your life, not only is your philosophy wrong, it is leading you to live a wasted and meaningless life, that is probably incapable of even knowing what a human life can and should be, and can only end in failure and despair, like Nero (suicide), Caligula (insane, assisinated), and Hitler (suicide), and they are your idea of possible successful lives.
Note the term 'enjoying' in your OP. From historical records, Nero, Caligula, and Hitler had literally [not deluded] 'enjoyed' taken delight or pleasure in the activities they were doing. Those of such people could be smart to commit suicide when they think their end of 'enjoyment' is impending.

My point in mentioning Nero, Caligula, and Hitler enjoying life during their time was not related to what I think of human beings, rather it is to expose your narrow thinking.

What you should have referred to effectively for the point intended would be something like a state of 'flow';
In positive psychology, a flow state, also known colloquially as being in the zone, is the mental state in which a person performing an activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity.
In essence, flow is characterized by the complete absorption in what one does, and a resulting transformation in one's sense of time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
RCSaunders wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:12 pm.. but actually enjoying it as a human being.
This is too vague.

Note Bhagavad Gita 2:47.
Do not be attached to your fruits of actions.
Point is for one to do one's duty as a human being and one should not direct any attention to 'enjoying' life as a human being or whatever.

I offered a more effective of approach and methodology to living life than your 'enjoying' life, do you agree that would be a better view than yours.
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

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RCSaunders wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:25 am
Sculptor wrote: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:24 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:32 pm If you are not enjoying your life there is something wrong with your philosophy.
People can have marvelous philosophies and never follow them. The angst of living is most often because of a series of duties and obligations that people accept through social and peer pressure that often fly against their own inclinations and philosophical ideas.

It is rare to find a person who perfectly exemplifies a seamless bond between their beliefs and their behaviours.

Compromise is important. For example; as I do not wish to live alone, and the prospect of finding a woman who is perfectly matched to my every need is limited, I have to put up with stuff I'd rather not have to. And thinking about it, a woman matched perfectly to my every need would probably be soon boring.

Then there are those whose philosophy is wrong, dead wrong, hopelessly misguided on a number of levels and despite this, even because of it, they are as happy as Larry.
It is not possible to know whether someone else is enjoying there life, as I explained in my previous post to VA. I never said a right philosophy automatically resulted in a life that is enjoyed,
... though that is implied
only that one who is not enjoying their life has a wrong philosophy.
I suggest that is not the case either.

Just because one looks happy to you, or claims to be enjoying their life, does not mean they are. Expressions like, "happy as a clam," and, "fat, dumb, and happy," and, "ignorance is bliss," describe states that are truly not successful human states as though they were.
SO you have to look miserable to be truly happy?

The point is not to judge whether someone else is enjoying their life (which we really can't know) but to ensure our own lives are lived successfully. You don't sound like a failure or unhappy to me. To whatever extent your philosophy, the beliefs you base your choices on, determines your choices, it must be correct.
I seriously do not think that these two things are connected necessarily, since we rarely live to the letter of our philosophy and its rightness in terms of reason and logic may well not lead to a happy outcome.
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

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Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:01 am I seriously do not think that these two things are connected necessarily, since we rarely live to the letter of our philosophy and its rightness in terms of reason and logic may well not lead to a happy outcome.
Of course you do not have to think that. I think most people do not believe there is a direct connection between what they believe that determines their choices and the consequences of their choices and actions. If someone is not living, "to the letter of their philosophy," they must believe their philosophy is not totally correct, and therefore can be defied without bad consequence, or that they can choose to do what their own philosophy tells them is wrong and get away with it. I think that is exactly what most people think.
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

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RCSaunders wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:07 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:01 am I seriously do not think that these two things are connected necessarily, since we rarely live to the letter of our philosophy and its rightness in terms of reason and logic may well not lead to a happy outcome.
Of course you do not have to think that. I think most people do not believe there is a direct connection between what they believe that determines their choices and the consequences of their choices and actions. If someone is not living, "to the letter of their philosophy," they must believe their philosophy is not totally correct, and therefore can be defied without bad consequence, or that they can choose to do what their own philosophy tells them is wrong and get away with it. I think that is exactly what most people think.
No.
You are making a rationalist fallacy.
People's rationality is a veneer. We are led my deeper forces.
I know I am right in saying that it would be better if I were lighter. I am also right in saying that overeating makes me fat. I am crystal clear that I ought to eat less and loose weight.
Yet everyday I am happy to enjoy, too much food. Somedays it is just a little too much; other days it is far too much. As I grow older my conviction about the strength of my argument about the relationship between food and being overweight is more and more sure, yet I am still overweight and I still enjoy my food.
Despite this internal contradiction I am happy.
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:24 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:07 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:01 am I seriously do not think that these two things are connected necessarily, since we rarely live to the letter of our philosophy and its rightness in terms of reason and logic may well not lead to a happy outcome.
Of course you do not have to think that. I think most people do not believe there is a direct connection between what they believe that determines their choices and the consequences of their choices and actions. If someone is not living, "to the letter of their philosophy," they must believe their philosophy is not totally correct, and therefore can be defied without bad consequence, or that they can choose to do what their own philosophy tells them is wrong and get away with it. I think that is exactly what most people think.
No.
You are making a rationalist fallacy.
People's rationality is a veneer. We are led my deeper forces.
I know I am right in saying that it would be better if I were lighter. I am also right in saying that overeating makes me fat. I am crystal clear that I ought to eat less and loose weight.
Yet everyday I am happy to enjoy, too much food. Somedays it is just a little too much; other days it is far too much. As I grow older my conviction about the strength of my argument about the relationship between food and being overweight is more and more sure, yet I am still overweight and I still enjoy my food.
Despite this internal contradiction I am happy.
How does one 'loose' weight?
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:24 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:07 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:01 am I seriously do not think that these two things are connected necessarily, since we rarely live to the letter of our philosophy and its rightness in terms of reason and logic may well not lead to a happy outcome.
Of course you do not have to think that. I think most people do not believe there is a direct connection between what they believe that determines their choices and the consequences of their choices and actions. If someone is not living, "to the letter of their philosophy," they must believe their philosophy is not totally correct, and therefore can be defied without bad consequence, or that they can choose to do what their own philosophy tells them is wrong and get away with it. I think that is exactly what most people think.
No.
You are making a rationalist fallacy.
People's rationality is a veneer. We are led my deeper forces.
I know I am right in saying that it would be better if I were lighter. I am also right in saying that overeating makes me fat. I am crystal clear that I ought to eat less and loose weight.
Yet everyday I am happy to enjoy, too much food. Somedays it is just a little too much; other days it is far too much. As I grow older my conviction about the strength of my argument about the relationship between food and being overweight is more and more sure, yet I am still overweight and I still enjoy my food.
Despite this internal contradiction I am happy.
My one and only point was to those who are not enjoying their life. It did not imply anything else (except in your mind). If you believe you are happy, I would never presume to think you are not. Everybody is different and how anyone lives that will satisfy them will be different.

But, I also take the word of those who say they are not enjoying their lives, or indicate by their behavior, such as those who engage in self-destructive behavior or complain about their depression, unhappiness, and frustration with life. There are more people seeking psychological help then ever before in history (just because they are not enjoying their lives) and whole swaths of people publicly protesting their unhappiness with the world, society, politics, their poverty, mistreatment, etc. etc. etc. I do not regard them as happy.

I do not mind anecdotal examples, such as yours. The only thing I would question is what point you were making. What do you mean by, "I ought to eat less and loose weight?" You did not say why you believe you ought to. If it's just because you think you would like it if you were lighter, there are always thing we would like, but we make choices. We can't have everything or do everything so we have to choose which is worth the most to us. There are some languages I would really love to know better and could, but the time and effort required at this stage of life that would have to be taken away from other things I know would be good for me prevent me from spending that time and effort on those languages.

It seems to me, you've made a decision. You know it would be good for you if you weighed less, both for your own immediate enjoyment and your health. You also know you enjoy eating, and that depriving yourself of the pleasure makes you miserable. As far as I can see from what you've told me, you've simply made choice between two thing you desire, and if your happy, as you say your are, than who can argue with your choice. I don't think you like the fact that you have to make that choice, that you cannot both enjoy eating what you enjoy eating and enjoy weighing less, but life is tough and there are always hard choices.

My wife was a Weight Watcher leader for many years. She often told me that both men and women complained to her that they knew they should loose weight, but just could not stop eating. When she asked them, what made them eat when they did not want to, they all admitted they ate because they wanted to. They did not eat when they did not want to eat, they ate when they wished they did not want to. She had to make them see, they were never going to not want to eat and that they just had to decide what they wanted most, and what was really in their own best interest both short term and long term. They were going to have to give up something, like it or not. It was going to cost them something sometime, and there was no avoiding the consequences of their choice.

One more thing I must say. If you are happy with your life, you never have to explain to anyone else how you live or why, and more power to you.
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by RCSaunders »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:34 pm How does one 'loose' weight?
By letting it out.
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

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vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:34 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:24 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:07 pm
Of course you do not have to think that. I think most people do not believe there is a direct connection between what they believe that determines their choices and the consequences of their choices and actions. If someone is not living, "to the letter of their philosophy," they must believe their philosophy is not totally correct, and therefore can be defied without bad consequence, or that they can choose to do what their own philosophy tells them is wrong and get away with it. I think that is exactly what most people think.
No.
You are making a rationalist fallacy.
People's rationality is a veneer. We are led my deeper forces.
I know I am right in saying that it would be better if I were lighter. I am also right in saying that overeating makes me fat. I am crystal clear that I ought to eat less and loose weight.
Yet everyday I am happy to enjoy, too much food. Somedays it is just a little too much; other days it is far too much. As I grow older my conviction about the strength of my argument about the relationship between food and being overweight is more and more sure, yet I am still overweight and I still enjoy my food.
Despite this internal contradiction I am happy.
How does one 'loose' weight?
Go away
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by Sculptor »

RCSaunders wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:50 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:24 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:07 pm
Of course you do not have to think that. I think most people do not believe there is a direct connection between what they believe that determines their choices and the consequences of their choices and actions. If someone is not living, "to the letter of their philosophy," they must believe their philosophy is not totally correct, and therefore can be defied without bad consequence, or that they can choose to do what their own philosophy tells them is wrong and get away with it. I think that is exactly what most people think.
No.
You are making a rationalist fallacy.
People's rationality is a veneer. We are led my deeper forces.
I know I am right in saying that it would be better if I were lighter. I am also right in saying that overeating makes me fat. I am crystal clear that I ought to eat less and loose weight.
Yet everyday I am happy to enjoy, too much food. Somedays it is just a little too much; other days it is far too much. As I grow older my conviction about the strength of my argument about the relationship between food and being overweight is more and more sure, yet I am still overweight and I still enjoy my food.
Despite this internal contradiction I am happy.
My one and only point was to those who are not enjoying their life. It did not imply anything else (except in your mind). If you believe you are happy, I would never presume to think you are not. Everybody is different and how anyone lives that will satisfy them will be different.

But, I also take the word of those who say they are not enjoying their lives, or indicate by their behavior, such as those who engage in self-destructive behavior or complain about their depression, unhappiness, and frustration with life. There are more people seeking psychological help then ever before in history (just because they are not enjoying their lives) and whole swaths of people publicly protesting their unhappiness with the world, society, politics, their poverty, mistreatment, etc. etc. etc. I do not regard them as happy.
I do not think there is any body of evidence capable of making the claim that people are more unhappy than at any time in history.
Protesting is good for the soul. You should not assume that they are unhappy.
But let's say that unhappiness is the result of discontent concerning their political situation. I do not see how their personal philosophy has failed them here. Maybe they would be better off in ignorance and stop looking at the newsfeeds from other places whose grass seems greener?

I do not mind anecdotal examples, such as yours. The only thing I would question is what point you were making. What do you mean by, "I ought to eat less and loose weight?" You did not say why you believe you ought to. If it's just because you think you would like it if you were lighter, there are always thing we would like, but we make choices. We can't have everything or do everything so we have to choose which is worth the most to us. There are some languages I would really love to know better and could, but the time and effort required at this stage of life that would have to be taken away from other things I know would be good for me prevent me from spending that time and effort on those languages.
You seem to have missed the point. I was directly pitting my reason against my base desire to eat. Hunger is a constant pressure. Wanting to know a language is not.


It seems to me, you've made a decision. You know it would be good for you if you weighed less, both for your own immediate enjoyment and your health. You also know you enjoy eating, and that depriving yourself of the pleasure makes you miserable. As far as I can see from what you've told me, you've simply made choice between two thing you desire, and if your happy, as you say your are, than who can argue with your choice. I don't think you like the fact that you have to make that choice, that you cannot both enjoy eating what you enjoy eating and enjoy weighing less, but life is tough and there are always hard choices.
What's your point regarding your argument???

My wife was a Weight Watcher leader for many years. She o...

One more thing I must say. If you are happy with your life, you never have to explain to anyone else how you live or why, and more power to you.
But how does this relate to your argument?
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by RCSaunders »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:12 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:50 pm
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:24 pm
No.
You are making a rationalist fallacy.
People's rationality is a veneer. We are led my deeper forces.
I know I am right in saying that it would be better if I were lighter. I am also right in saying that overeating makes me fat. I am crystal clear that I ought to eat less and loose weight.
Yet everyday I am happy to enjoy, too much food. Somedays it is just a little too much; other days it is far too much. As I grow older my conviction about the strength of my argument about the relationship between food and being overweight is more and more sure, yet I am still overweight and I still enjoy my food.
Despite this internal contradiction I am happy.
My one and only point was to those who are not enjoying their life. It did not imply anything else (except in your mind). If you believe you are happy, I would never presume to think you are not. Everybody is different and how anyone lives that will satisfy them will be different.

But, I also take the word of those who say they are not enjoying their lives, or indicate by their behavior, such as those who engage in self-destructive behavior or complain about their depression, unhappiness, and frustration with life. There are more people seeking psychological help then ever before in history (just because they are not enjoying their lives) and whole swaths of people publicly protesting their unhappiness with the world, society, politics, their poverty, mistreatment, etc. etc. etc. I do not regard them as happy.
I do not think there is any body of evidence capable of making the claim that people are more unhappy than at any time in history.
Who said they were?
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:12 pm Protesting is good for the soul. You should not assume that they are unhappy.
But let's say that unhappiness is the result of discontent concerning their political situation. I do not see how their personal philosophy has failed them here. Maybe they would be better off in ignorance and stop looking at the newsfeeds from other places whose grass seems greener?
I don't assume anything. I take the protesters' words for it. People do not complain about what they like, and it's easier to complain than to actually do something to improve one's own life.
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:12 pm
One more thing I must say. If you are happy with your life, you never have to explain to anyone else how you live or why, and more power to you.
But how does this relate to your argument?
It doesn't and wasn't intended to. It was meant to be agreeable.
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by Sculptor »

RCSaunders wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:45 pmThere are more people seeking psychological help then ever before in history (just because they are not enjoying their lives) and whole swaths of people publicly protesting their unhappiness with the world, society, politics, their poverty, mistreatment, etc. etc. etc. I do not regard them as happy.
I do not think there is any body of evidence capable of making the claim that people are more unhappy than at any time in history.[/quote]
Who said they were?
You seem to imply that.
In any event..
Surely the reason there are more people seeking psychological help is that one.
1) Psychological help is a thing not before offered, and when it was invented, was not widely available, until recently.
2) There are more people than at any time in history.
3) The internet is capable of making "mental health" a fetish never before thought of in most people.
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:12 pm
But how does this relate to your argument?
It doesn't and wasn't intended to. It was meant to be agreeable.
Thanks.
Makes a change here.
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Re: Are You Enjoying You Life?

Post by RCSaunders »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:14 am Point is for one to do one's duty as a human being and one should not direct any attention to 'enjoying' life as a human being or whatever.
If there were such a thing as, "duty," it would be to live one's life as well as they could, doing and achieving all they could, and making of themselves the best human being they could possibly be. That is what enjoying life means.

Every vile thing any human being has ever done has been justified on the grounds that it was one's, "duty."

Yours is an anti-life, anti-human, death and suffering worshiping philosophy.
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