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are you experienced?
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:16 pm
by henry quirk
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:17 pm
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:07 pm
Is a coherent experience just blind faith?
(Sorry for expressing the following in klumnsilly fashion, but after I read it out loud to myself with a mouthful of apple in my pie hole, it sounded perfectly clear.)
When an experience is experienced by an experiencer, that experience serves as evidence to the experiencer.
That's seems to be enough, and should be enough, for anyone cuz anyone can have the same experience by replicating the experience that the initial experiencer experienced when he experienced the experience.
Re: are you experienced?
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:30 pm
by Immanuel Can
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:16 pm
That's seems to be enough, and should be enough, for anyone cuz anyone can have the same experience by replicating the experience that the initial experiencer experienced when he experienced the experience.
That's certainly true if the experience in question is available to anyone, as you say, Henry. Not all experiences are.
My wife tells me that all the time: "You're only saying that because you're a man." It's like men have one kind of experience, and women have another -- which is what Feminists have been insisting. Maybe it's not really true: but maybe it is.
But maybe a better example is Thomas Nagel's bat. Nagel says that nobody can know what it's like to be a bat -- to echolocate, to fly at night on leathery wings, eating bugs (or plausibly, biting on the necks of helpless virgins). So a bat can have a genuine experience that not anyone can have. And it would still be a totally real experience.
We just have to be bats to have it.
Re: are you experienced?
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:32 pm
by commonsense
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:16 pm
commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:17 pm
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:07 pm
Is a coherent experience just blind faith?
(Sorry for expressing the following in klumnsilly fashion, but after I read it out loud to myself with a mouthful of apple in my pie hole, it sounded perfectly clear.)
When an experience is experienced by an experiencer, that experience serves as evidence to the experiencer.
That's seems to be enough, and should be enough, for anyone cuz anyone can have the same experience by replicating the experience that the initial experiencer experienced when he experienced the experience.
Agreed.
Re: are you experienced?
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:14 pm
by henry quirk
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:30 pm
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:16 pm
That's seems to be enough, and should be enough, for anyone cuz anyone can have the same experience by replicating the experience that the initial experiencer experienced when he experienced the experience.
That's certainly true if the experience in question is available to anyone, as you say, Henry. Not all experiences are.
My wife tells me that all the time: "You're only saying that because you're a man." It's like men have one kind of experience, and women have another -- which is what Feminists have been insisting. Maybe it's not really true: but maybe it is.
But maybe a better example is Thomas Nagel's bat. Nagel says that nobody can know what it's like to be a bat -- to echolocate, to fly at night on leathery wings, eating bugs (or plausibly, biting on the necks of helpless virgins). So a bat can have a genuine experience that not anyone can have. And it would still be a totally real experience.
We just have to be bats to have it.
I agree, but -- in context -- anyone (man, woman, bat) can experience leavin' an apple on the table, goin' off for the day, then returning to find the apple where they left it, where they expect it to be (on the table). So sure they are the apple will be there each will have a hissy if they find it missing. 'Some sob stole my apple!' they'd say. Not a one would or should say 'I guess I didn't imagine my apple very well cuz it done disappeared'.
Re: are you experienced?
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:05 pm
by Immanuel Can
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:14 pm
Not a one would or should say 'I guess I didn't imagine my apple very well cuz it done disappeared'.
Re: Which of these is Real and True?
Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:55 pm
by Harbal
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:43 am
Could we say, based on the listing above, there is no apple at all?
I can't think of a reason why we couldn't say it. Why don't you try saying it and see what happens?