Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

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jayjacobus
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by jayjacobus » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:12 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:30 pm
jayjacobus wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:03 pm
What we need is a court by the people, for the people and of the people. Truck drivers, waitresses, scientists, teachers will figure it out. The supreme court is supreme Trumpsters.

(What government lackey changed medicare? We'll see about that.)
The group you mentioned is better suited for a good old fashioned orgy. Is the only alternative enforced equality in slavery? If you want o seriously consider this question you'll have to reason beyond blaming Trump and come to grips with what is necessary for the benefits of free speech to outweigh its detriments.
What an insulting post. You want Trump to speak for me without a clue in his head what I want him to say..

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Sculptor
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by Sculptor » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:23 pm

If free speech means that one man, Rupert Murdoch gets to control the political process then it might be high time we revised what it means.

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Sculptor
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by Sculptor » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:25 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:12 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:30 pm
jayjacobus wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:03 pm
What we need is a court by the people, for the people and of the people. Truck drivers, waitresses, scientists, teachers will figure it out. The supreme court is supreme Trumpsters.

(What government lackey changed medicare? We'll see about that.)
The group you mentioned is better suited for a good old fashioned orgy. Is the only alternative enforced equality in slavery? If you want o seriously consider this question you'll have to reason beyond blaming Trump and come to grips with what is necessary for the benefits of free speech to outweigh its detriments.
What an insulting post. You want Trump to speak for me without a clue in his head what I want him to say..
Trump does not have a clue in his head what he wants to say from moment to moment - until he splurges like a twittering moron.
So what's the difference?

jayjacobus
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by jayjacobus » Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:50 pm

If you go to a doctor with a pain in your chest and the doctor says, "you check out fine." and you say, "But Doc what about the pain in my chest?" And the doctor says "Set un an appointment for next year.", is the doctor not listening?

Who said talk to the Ukraine? Trump said that. Who said change medicare? Trump said that. Who said tariff the Chinese? Trump said that. Who said lower wealthy people's taxes, insult congress, build a wall, screw with national parks, don't fight global warming, hate the FBI, buy up waterfront property in Puerto Rico and more? Trump said that. He speaks for himself. He doesn't listen to the patient The patient is screwed because the Doctor WON"T listen. The country's president is talking to himself. Give him free speech but don't take orders from him. The IRS should not change taxes, the tariff collectors should not collect tariffs, the army should not build a wall and none of the government employees should pay any attention to Trump's words. They should say, "Got it" but ignore him like he ignores us.

Nick_A
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by Nick_A » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:54 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:12 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:30 pm
jayjacobus wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:03 pm
What we need is a court by the people, for the people and of the people. Truck drivers, waitresses, scientists, teachers will figure it out. The supreme court is supreme Trumpsters.

(What government lackey changed medicare? We'll see about that.)
The group you mentioned is better suited for a good old fashioned orgy. Is the only alternative enforced equality in slavery? If you want o seriously consider this question you'll have to reason beyond blaming Trump and come to grips with what is necessary for the benefits of free speech to outweigh its detriments.
What an insulting post. You want Trump to speak for me without a clue in his head what I want him to say..
Of course it is insulting. When people are unconcerned with the value of freedom and what is necessary to defend and preserve it, then such ideas are offensive and people prefer to argue about Trump.

How many hours a week are spent in high schools discussing quotes concerning freedom from our founding fathers? The sad truth is that free speech is not considered worth defending because freedom is not worth defending. Freedom is not valued and statist slavey is preferred in the blind belief that it will lead to something good.

You want to argue about Trump and the sad fact is that people are largely incapable of a sincere discussion on the merits of the following quotes. Only Trump is important and it has proven that freedom and free speech which defends it are believed not worthy of defense. The thread has helped reveal the reality of the situation and I do thank you for that.

“The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil constitution, are worth defending against all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”
-Samuel Adams

"A general Dissolution of Principles & Manners will more surely overthrow the Liberties of America than the whole Force of the Common Enemy."
-Samuel Adams

“Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature.”
-Benjamin Franklin

“We have all one common cause; let it, therefore, be our only contest, who shall most contribute to the security of the liberties of America.”
-John Hancock

“A sacred respect for the constitutional law is the vital principle, the sustaining energy of a free government.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
-George Washington

“The preservation of the sacred fire of liberty, and the destiny of the Republican model of Government, are justly considered as deeply, perhaps as finally staked, on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people.”
-George Washington

“The Constitution is the guide which I will never abandon.”
-George Washington

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henry quirk
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Who said...

Post by henry quirk » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:25 am

...disable & dismantle, flummox & perturb, wreck & salt the Earth?

Me. I did.

Trump is doin' exactly what I hired him to do.

You don't wanna claim him, are ashamed of him, want him gone?

No worries: he'll be out at the end of '24.

Till then: enjoy the show.

Nick_A
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by Nick_A » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:50 am

Now that it has been concluded that freedom and consequently free speech isn't wanted in favor of controlled speech supporting statist slavery, how can educational institutions and the media help the transition? There will still be some who prefer freedom to slavery and they must be shouted down, ridiculed and made to feel obsolete, The concept of the nuclear family as the basis for society must be eliminated and replaced by state sanctioned relationships which demand control of the offspring as early as possible to begin indoctrination. At one time the church was the center of town. these churches must be made to move and government buildings must be featured at the center of town designed to enforce the rules of statist slavery. That of course is just the beginning. Experts in creating slavery will concentrate on the removal of anything else supporting freedom. Soon the slaves will get their way and their demands to abolish freedom will be established. it is nature's way.

Freedom requires a quality of being society rejects so demands slavery as the only other alternative. America is an opportunity which failed. It was believed that people could live free. But unfortunately the demand for slavery is too strong and must become the result of what is called progress.

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henry quirk
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"America is an opportunity which failed."

Post by henry quirk » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:55 am

Fat lady ain't sang yet.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:45 am

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:13 pm

At least you are honest. Speech that asserts the importance of defending a woman from rape is considered meaningless. Just let nature take its course since it is all just a dream. I can see why you may believe it but I, as an ol fashioned male, still believes in speech aimed at protecting women from rape
Well this is where you misinterpret the dream aspect of reality.

Within the dream of separation, the dream character still has to play it's role in the role it is playing as and through the action figure, aka the mind body organism, aka the mechanism by which the organism becomes self-aware in the knowledge of itself albeit illusory knowledge... since it's all just a belief arising here to no one and no thing, although appearing as if the dream was apparently REAL.

It still has to take responsibilty else face the consequences of it's actions. The freedom to act or not act, do or not do is always available just as it is with every other creatures drive to survive. Although it does apparently seem that the human primate has evloved a more superior kind of intelligence, in that it can identify with it's own pain and suffering, and so would not necessarily want to inflict that onto it's own kind, unless of course it had no empathy which is just another aspect of the intelligence that is consciousness, but there is no fixed condition to behave a certain way, all actions are not fixed conditions, for all conditions are unconditionally allowed. That's the true nature of LOVE in that's it's TOTALLY FREE and unconditionally acting in every moment.

Brutality, evil and every other nasty thing that is apparently happening within the dream of separation, is just part and parcel of the whole game of life that plays only with itself. The human unconditioned condition is in a poor state right now, but that's all part of the game.

In reality, there is no one performing any immoral action, because there is no body/thing/ or separate entity inside the meat suit, except within the dream of separation unique to the human mind, which is just an imposed belief, by the mind itself, which is an illusion, but that's another long story ..that you'll find answers to within nondual literature where all the lies about reality are revealed to be the only truth.

.

jayjacobus
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Re: "America is an opportunity which failed."

Post by jayjacobus » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:06 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:55 am
Fat lady ain't sang yet.
The president is fat , dumb and happy because "his" employees follow his orders. When that changes, he will go on a diet.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:28 am

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:13 pm

At least you are honest. Speech that asserts the importance of defending a woman from rape is considered meaningless. Just let nature take its course since it is all just a dream. I can see why you may believe it but I, as an ol fashioned male, still believes in speech aimed at protecting women from rape
What do you think AWAKENING is?

It's waking up from the dream to realise the dream for what is actually is, and that nothing happened to the you in which the whole dream was arising, you were just the untouched witness to the dream. And yes, no one is denying that all sorts of adventures and events can happen within the dream..but upon awakening from the dream, it is auspiciously seen that the dream evaporates like a salamander in the sun.

The waking dream is no different. It's only too apparent that the dream characters mistake their role play as being real, but in reality nothing happened in a dream. This is hard concept to grasp, that's why most characters within the dream never want to wake up, they like being attached to their role play within the story.

In reality no dream character ever awakens, and that knowledge is what the sages call enlightenment, it is the peace that passes all understanding.

No one wants enlightenment, they prefer the drama...so that's what they get.

.

Nick_A
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by Nick_A » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:29 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:28 am
Nick_A wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:13 pm

At least you are honest. Speech that asserts the importance of defending a woman from rape is considered meaningless. Just let nature take its course since it is all just a dream. I can see why you may believe it but I, as an ol fashioned male, still believes in speech aimed at protecting women from rape
What do you think AWAKENING is?

It's waking up from the dream to realise the dream for what is actually is, and that nothing happened to the you in which the whole dream was arising, you were just the untouched witness to the dream. And yes, no one is denying that all sorts of adventures and events can happen within the dream..but upon awakening from the dream, it is auspiciously seen that the dream evaporates like a salamander in the sun.

The waking dream is no different. It's only too apparent that the dream characters mistake their role play as being real, but in reality nothing happened in a dream. This is hard concept to grasp, that's why most characters within the dream never want to wake up, they like being attached to their role play within the story.

In reality no dream character ever awakens, and that knowledge is what the sages call enlightenment, it is the peace that passes all understanding.

No one wants enlightenment, they prefer the drama...so that's what they get.

.
If you want to discuss awakening we can do so but why destroy a thread? Why not begin a thread on awakening? Doing so requires revealing what a human being is and the tension between its lower and higher parts.

This thread is documenting something important. It is proving that people as a whole prefer slavery to freedom. When someone like me awakens to experience that this is true, we ask ourselves why. Why did people like Washington live through such horrors? Was freedom worth it. No according to the modern educated person. Rather than fighting to preserve freedom and concepts like free speech necessary to preserve it, The modern dulled educated mind prefers slavery to understanding what is necessary for a free society. This thread has proven the attraction to slavery since there are no people willing to defend freedom and what is necessary to sustain it. It is this way in the world of politics and the media. Freedom is only for the elite who profit from manipulating the newly enslaved. Of course once this media elite is no longer deemed necessary it is demoted into the world of slaves

There are three choices: freedom, chaos, and slavery. When freedom is sacrificed it produces chaos which can only be dealt with by submitting to slavery and finally if necessary, an all powerful tyrant. If education and culture no longer value freedom and worships ignorance of the dynamics of freedom then culture must descend into a form of statist slavery to avoid chaos.

Nick_A
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by Nick_A » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:49 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:29 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:28 am
Nick_A wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:13 pm

At least you are honest. Speech that asserts the importance of defending a woman from rape is considered meaningless. Just let nature take its course since it is all just a dream. I can see why you may believe it but I, as an ol fashioned male, still believes in speech aimed at protecting women from rape
What do you think AWAKENING is?

It's waking up from the dream to realise the dream for what is actually is, and that nothing happened to the you in which the whole dream was arising, you were just the untouched witness to the dream. And yes, no one is denying that all sorts of adventures and events can happen within the dream..but upon awakening from the dream, it is auspiciously seen that the dream evaporates like a salamander in the sun.

The waking dream is no different. It's only too apparent that the dream characters mistake their role play as being real, but in reality nothing happened in a dream. This is hard concept to grasp, that's why most characters within the dream never want to wake up, they like being attached to their role play within the story.

In reality no dream character ever awakens, and that knowledge is what the sages call enlightenment, it is the peace that passes all understanding.

No one wants enlightenment, they prefer the drama...so that's what they get.

.
If you want to discuss awakening we can do so but why destroy a thread? Why not begin a thread on awakening? Doing so requires revealing what a human being is and the tension between its lower and higher parts.

This thread is documenting something important. It is proving that people as a whole prefer slavery to freedom. When someone like me awakens to experience that this is true, we ask ourselves why. Why did people like Washington live through such horrors? Was freedom worth it. No according to the modern educated person. Rather than fighting to preserve freedom and concepts like free speech necessary to preserve it, The modern dulled educated mind prefers slavery to understanding what is necessary for a free society. This thread has proven the attraction to slavery since there are no people willing to defend freedom and what is necessary to sustain it. It is this way in the world of politics and the media. Freedom is only for the elite who profit from manipulating the newly enslaved. Of course once this media elite is no longer deemed necessary it is demoted into the world of slaves

There are three choices: freedom, chaos, and slavery. When freedom is sacrificed it produces chaos which can only be dealt with by submitting to slavery and finally if necessary, an all powerful tyrant. If education and culture no longer value freedom and worships ignorance of the dynamics of freedom then culture must descend into a form of statist slavery to avoid chaos.

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwel
l

This is why political correctness is now the moral god. It prevents people from having to endure what they don't want to hear and assures people will only hear what they want to hear: the joy of descending into statist slavery.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Is Free Speech Worth Defending?

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:48 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:29 pm

If you want to discuss awakening we can do so but why destroy a thread? Why not begin a thread on awakening? Doing so requires revealing what a human being is and the tension between its lower and higher parts.
Sorry Nick for destroying the thread. This is my last posting to this thread ok, but I just want to share something that you may find interesting.

This video may help some people understand why they prefer slavery to freedom. Maybe slavery feels more secure for them.
It is a prison planet for sure though, but that's how they have been programmed to like it..enjoy the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvbTFwXagdQ

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henry quirk
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why destroy a thread?

Post by henry quirk » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:05 am

Free Speech!

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