DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:44 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:46 am
There is a reason why eastern religions do whatever it takes to avoid reincarnation and why in western abrahamic religions the book of ecclesiastes states loosely: "the day one dies is better than the day they where born" and depth of attending "funerals over parties".
:lol: :lol:

We cry joy at the arrival and cry sorrow at the depart.

Or, we could just as easy cry sorrow at the arrival and cry joy at the depart.

Funny old game eh! :mrgreen:

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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:54 am

Ferdi wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:53 am
Re the days of birth and death, no one remembers their own birth, and one’s death is seldom of one’s own choosing; but times are changing!
You can't experience your own (birth or death), nor can you experience your own (presence or absence) which is another way of saying the first premise. But that's another story. :D

If you know you are alive then you can stop imposing it on the ones that don't, the ones we drag into existence everytime we get pregnant. And when that new life is born it's peaceful state is not so peaceful anymore.

Here is another story...An omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent God created the entire universe just so a hairless ape could strut itself on centre stage.. Ain't that sumthin? :wink:

.

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Sculptor
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Sculptor » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:21 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:54 am
Ferdi wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:53 am
Re the days of birth and death, no one remembers their own birth, and one’s death is seldom of one’s own choosing; but times are changing!
You can't experience your own (birth or death), nor can you experience your own (presence or absence) which is another way of saying the first premise. But that's another story. :D
It's not another story at all. It is right, and for that reason the entire thread is invalidated, since we are unable to say if not being born could in ANY sense be better. There is no point of comparison, between and life and the complete absence of knowledge, opinion, judgement, "worth", good, bad, or better.
The thread makes no sense, never has.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:40 pm

Ferdi wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:53 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:46 am
There is a reason why eastern religions do whatever it takes to avoid reincarnation and why in western abrahamic religions the book of ecclesiastes states loosely: "the day one dies is better than the day they where born" and depth of attending "funerals over parties".
Holy Books allegedly inspired by God are in fact produced by indoctrinated humans.
Of course there are reasons why any religious believers will do whatever they deem their duty in spreading their beliefs and wave their Holy Books. We have a free will and are free to believe what we like but unfortunately, our surroundings influence our beliefs. Missionaries and Religious zealots may mean well but are subject to self-deluding indoctrination.
Re the days of birth and death, no one remembers their own birth, and one’s death is seldom of one’s own choosing; but times are changing!
This statement is indoctrinated by humans.


If you had free will, but your response was determined by my prior statement....how free is it?

Immortality through science, (assuming the "times are changing!" statement implies this.) has no proof and is probabilistic...thus given a long enough time line "death" plays out regardless.


Humans are self deluded....

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:41 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:44 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:46 am
There is a reason why eastern religions do whatever it takes to avoid reincarnation and why in western abrahamic religions the book of ecclesiastes states loosely: "the day one dies is better than the day they where born" and depth of attending "funerals over parties".
:lol: :lol:

We cry joy at the arrival and cry sorrow at the depart.

Or, we could just as easy cry sorrow at the arrival and cry joy at the depart.

Funny old game eh! :mrgreen:
Cycles within cycles layered with more cycles as a cycle...

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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:53 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:41 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:44 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:46 am
There is a reason why eastern religions do whatever it takes to avoid reincarnation and why in western abrahamic religions the book of ecclesiastes states loosely: "the day one dies is better than the day they where born" and depth of attending "funerals over parties".
:lol: :lol:

We cry joy at the arrival and cry sorrow at the depart.

Or, we could just as easy cry sorrow at the arrival and cry joy at the depart.

Funny old game eh! :mrgreen:
Cycles within cycles layered with more cycles as a cycle...
Like the rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat cycles within a washing machine going nowhere. The machine never moves, it's always stationary.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:21 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:53 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:41 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:44 am


:lol: :lol:

We cry joy at the arrival and cry sorrow at the depart.

Or, we could just as easy cry sorrow at the arrival and cry joy at the depart.

Funny old game eh! :mrgreen:
Cycles within cycles layered with more cycles as a cycle...
Like the rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat cycles within a washing machine going nowhere. The machine never moves, it's always stationary.
On a lighter note, it is all about "the center point" of the cycle...everything ends there in the end.

Call it nirvana, the God dimension "0" of the Hindus, Socratic Formless One the Gods Revolve around, The Dao, The I Am...The "Point" of it all....or may be silence is best.

Ferdi
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Ferdi » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:34 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:40 pm
Ferdi wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:53 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:46 am
There is a reason why eastern religions do whatever it takes to avoid reincarnation and why in western abrahamic religions the book of ecclesiastes states loosely: "the day one dies is better than the day they where born" and depth of attending "funerals over parties".
Holy Books allegedly inspired by God are in fact produced by indoctrinated humans.
Of course there are reasons why any religious believers will do whatever they deem their duty in spreading their beliefs and wave their Holy Books. We have a free will and are free to believe what we like but unfortunately, our surroundings influence our beliefs. Missionaries and Religious zealots may mean well but are subject to self-deluding indoctrination.
Re the days of birth and death, no one remembers their own birth, and one’s death is seldom of one’s own choosing; but times are changing!
This statement is indoctrinated by humans.


If you had free will, but your response was determined by my prior statement....how free is it?

Immortality through science, (assuming the "times are changing!" statement implies this.) has no proof and is probabilistic...thus given a long enough time line "death" plays out regardless.


Humans are self deluded....
Yes, each of us is a product of its environment, and there is no “if” about having a free will, other than it being constrained by one’s environment and applied by one’s ability.
As far as I’m aware, immortality is an abstract concept, not science. “Times are changing” about having a choice to legally end one’s own life.
“Self-delusion” is included in our free-will; thus self-inflicted, as distinct from indoctrination, which is naturally imposed by one’s environment.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:39 am

Ferdi wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:34 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:40 pm
Ferdi wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:53 am

Holy Books allegedly inspired by God are in fact produced by indoctrinated humans.
Of course there are reasons why any religious believers will do whatever they deem their duty in spreading their beliefs and wave their Holy Books. We have a free will and are free to believe what we like but unfortunately, our surroundings influence our beliefs. Missionaries and Religious zealots may mean well but are subject to self-deluding indoctrination.
Re the days of birth and death, no one remembers their own birth, and one’s death is seldom of one’s own choosing; but times are changing!
This statement is indoctrinated by humans.


If you had free will, but your response was determined by my prior statement....how free is it?

Immortality through science, (assuming the "times are changing!" statement implies this.) has no proof and is probabilistic...thus given a long enough time line "death" plays out regardless.


Humans are self deluded....
Yes, each of us is a product of its environment, and there is no “if” about having a free will, other than it being constrained by one’s environment and applied by one’s ability.
As far as I’m aware, immortality is an abstract concept, not science. “Times are changing” about having a choice to legally end one’s own life.
“Self-delusion” is included in our free-will; thus self-inflicted, as distinct from indoctrination, which is naturally imposed by one’s environment.
Indoctrination is the when one party replicates its perspectives and knowledge through another (generally younger) party. This replication of forms, as knowledge is fundamentally "formal" in nature due to its inherent reliance on symbolism, is inevitable.

Indoctrination is primarily used as a negative term, justifiably, however for a generation to be taught "think for yourselves" is still being indoctrinated. Generally this type of indoctrination is appetite manipulation where the party (company advertising product) making a statement such as "Express yourself" or "eat better with (x)" is providing the means to do it.

Societal bonds results in a falsely imposed hierarchy where those who are dominant are those that can manipulate and control people's appetites. The larger the society the more complex the distractions. A small local town will have a lesser degree of entertainment and food than let's say New York or Hong Kong.

So indoctrination is primarily societal in nature as the replication of a specific way of life composed of different degrees of consumption. Consumption being grounded in a basic convergence and divergence dichotomy, like an input/output box, where different foods/types of work (arts) come in and are taken apart and put back together in a new variation. We see this with globalization having an effect on the synthesis of different types of food as well as arts of the various source.

The emphasis on "creative self expression" by deconstructing oldways and putting them back together is a dogma of the time, but is primarily a context of the time due to mass communication and speed of travel. With everything being condensed more and more due to this "connection" creative self expressive synthesis is a replication of the greater zietgiest into the individual as zietgeists are merging at a quicker rate than prior times.

So indoctrination is somewhat inevitable....for better or worse, usually both....

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Tesla
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Tesla » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:27 am

To live is to experience awareness. To live is a prison with a window into bliss, the potentials of laughter, love, pain, and so much more. We are all caged to our planet and its situations. Some never get the chances to dare. But if you do live, dare. to never have existed, you could never be disappointed, but I believe when we die, we will be too dead to be disappointed. Yet, whatever mark in word, in building, it remains even after one dies. you have impacted life by living. Some times to disappointment. But be proud of your failures, only the brave will 'try'. And in that trying be proud. You chose to dare live with your life. and that is a path to contentment.

roll the dice on asking if the world would have been better without Hitler. No one can know. in the end ...the only opinion that matters is ones own.

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