DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

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Nick_A
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Nick_A » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:11 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:35 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:25 pm

Even though the meaning and purpose of our universe including life within it has been explained numerous times at least theoretically, denial is such a strong motivation that many remain closed to conscious contemplation of the reality of the human condition.
So what is this theoretically explained meaning and purpose to this universe? so what's the actual plan of human existence?
Be honest, you don't want to know. Living with self justification made possible through denial is far more satisfying. It took me a while to admit this since it seems unnatural but unfortunately it is true. It is acquired human nature. Why not just admit that denial is far more attractive? That way we can avoid all the negativity that comes from efforts to understand and bask in denial.

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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:32 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:11 pm

Be honest, you don't want to know.
Know what? what do you know that you think I don't want to know?
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:11 pm
Living with self justification made possible through denial is far more satisfying.
Denial of what?

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:11 pm
It took me a while to admit this since it seems unnatural but unfortunately it is true.
Admit what, and what seems unnatural but true. I really don't know what you are talking about Nick.
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:11 pm
It is acquired human nature. Why not just admit that denial is far more attractive? That way we can avoid all the negativity that comes from efforts to understand and bask in denial.
Denial of what exactly? I'm really not getting a handle on what you are trying to tell me.

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bahman
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by bahman » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:28 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:59 am
bahman wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:21 pm
henry quirk wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:26 pm
What say you?
I believe in spiritual reality which is way better than our reality. I think it worth waiting if you worth it.
Thanks for your thoughts, so what is that supposed to mean?

Why is a spiritual reality better than our reality, are these two separate realities and is one more worth waiting for? what exactly is worth waiting for, would you mind sharing?
Spiritual reality to me is other dimensions of reality which we don't have access to it right now. There are other creatures, concepts, things there. To me, the most fruitful thing is finding the meaning.

surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:48 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
I mean if you are here now then what is not to say you cannot be here again just in some other body with a different name
There is no evidence for reincarnation but even if there was I would not want to come back in any form at all
When I die I want to stay dead forever never having to experience a single second of consciousness ever again
And especially if I had zero choice about the body and mind that I would be trapped inside of for all of its life

jayjacobus
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by jayjacobus » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:55 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:48 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
I mean if you are here now then what is not to say you cannot be here again just in some other body with a different name
There is no evidence for reincarnation but even if there was I would not want to come back in any form at all
When I die I want to stay dead forever never having to experience a single second of consciousness ever again
And especially if I had zero choice about the body and mind that I would be trapped inside of for all of its life
But no matter what comes after death, it is not your choice. You will still be or cease to be. Not a choice you can make.

Nick_A
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Nick_A » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:01 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:32 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:11 pm

Be honest, you don't want to know.
Know what? what do you know that you think I don't want to know?
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:11 pm
Living with self justification made possible through denial is far more satisfying.
Denial of what?

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:11 pm
It took me a while to admit this since it seems unnatural but unfortunately it is true.
Admit what, and what seems unnatural but true. I really don't know what you are talking about Nick.
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:11 pm
It is acquired human nature. Why not just admit that denial is far more attractive? That way we can avoid all the negativity that comes from efforts to understand and bask in denial.
Denial of what exactly? I'm really not getting a handle on what you are trying to tell me.

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Denial is an emotional attitude. It doesn't require a subject. The attitude denies the entire psyche before a person decides what to deny. You are concerned with denial of what but people caught up in emotional denial don't need a specific what. Anything threatening self justification will serve as "what."

Consider the question of the universe. Does it have a purpose? You don't believe that you have a purpose and since you are the universe, it cannot have a purpose because it doesn't exist. You deny it.

A person not caught up in denial will know that they are an infinitesimal part of the universe so their opinion of themselves only concerns them and not a universal purpose. But this requires abandoning the psychological prison of emotional denial.

We cannot experience our universal purpose until we are open to experience universal meaning and purpose of which we are a part. But when we live in denial all we can say is nothing exists because anything else threatens the peace of self justification acquired through emotional denial

That is why I have such admiration for Simone Weil. She was unafraid to see and experience the shock of reality with impartiality. No blind belief or blind denial; just the will and the need to experience truth without corrupt emotional judgement including emotional denial. Such people are as rare as they are special

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Lacewing
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Lacewing » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:48 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:48 am
Do you mind me asking: Would you do it all again if the choice was possible would you choose to come here again, knowing what you know now about life and reality?
Good question. Yes... I would. I don't really know why... :lol: ...it just seems that there is something amazing or sacred about being in this experience, while at the same time recognizing that it is not lasting! It is like a burst/display of momentary creativity and expression... like a burst of fireworks in the sky. :D

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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:20 am

bahman wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:28 pm
Spiritual reality to me is other dimensions of reality which we don't have access to it right now. There are other creatures, concepts, things there. To me, the most fruitful thing is finding the meaning.
Pure dreamscape dreamt up by nothing.

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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:31 am

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:01 am

Consider the question of the universe. Does it have a purpose? You don't believe that you have a purpose and since you are the universe, it cannot have a purpose because it doesn't exist. You deny it.
No Nick, there is no one to deny anything here. There is just HERE as it is - in all it's presentation going live right now as it appears to no one.

I deny my interpretation of here that's all, I do that because I can apparently make believe myself as being a separate entity within existence, but I also know via the knowledge of opposites that there is no such separate entity, and so all I'm denying is I do not deny there is no one to deny.
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:01 am
A person not caught up in denial will know that they are an infinitesimal part of the universe so their opinion of themselves only concerns them and not a universal purpose. But this requires abandoning the psychological prison of emotional denial.

We cannot experience our universal purpose until we are open to experience universal meaning and purpose of which we are a part. But when we live in denial all we can say is nothing exists because anything else threatens the peace of self justification acquired through emotional denial

That is why I have such admiration for Simone Weil. She was unafraid to see and experience the shock of reality with impartiality. No blind belief or blind denial; just the will and the need to experience truth without corrupt emotional judgement including emotional denial. Such people are as rare as they are special
In all truth and honesty Nick, I have no idea what you are attempting to say here. For me, there is absolutely no reason or purpose for human beings to be alive, they are here for the same reason a cockroach is here. Humans are no more important than a slug. There is nothing special or rare about a human being. It's a messy high maintanence polluter of it's own environment, leaving the most disgusting waste behind them for the unborn to clear up after them, a vile cluttered polluted environment they did not asked to be born into.

My brain turns to fog when trying to make sense of other peoples realities. I can only make sense of my own reality the way I see it from my own direct experience.
I'm not in any way attempting to sell my experience to anyone, I have no agenda other than to speak from my own heart about how I personally see, feel and experience reality from this mind here. I don't see reality as being at all worth the price of addmission, unless one is a serial narcissistic, psychopathic, sadomasochist, kleptomaniac monster.

My own intelligence informs me to run and keep running far far away from people who are trying to sell you something in regards to knowledge, especially God stories. For me, I am the only one who has legitimate authority over myself and what I believe and don't believe. Only I see the world according to my own perception as and through my lens, which is the only instrument available to me, to make of the world what I will, or not, and to know it will never be anyone else's script. Descriptives are all the human has got to work with, and yet these descriptives have nothing to do with the natural world as it really presents itself whatsoever.

Nice things are addictive, so of course we like those nice things that give us pleasure. We paper over the cracks of what is actual reality as it really is in denial of it's obvious brutal cruelty just pretending it's all so natural and nice, and we call it love. Love is a lie we believe is real to make the reality more bearable, addictive hard core drugs and other stong medications like alcohol and food, comfort,dumb down,and sedate as they lesson the pain for the time being as we wait for the end of this madness.

Life is a sick, murderous game. The universe is an incredibly sinister place, it's own laws of chemistry allowing the creation of these sentient, sensitive beings primed to suffer immensely on a moments notice. All for a pointless non-conscious process of getting this information into the next generation. There would be no inherent badness to life if consciousness wasn't possible. Technology and knowledge has enslaved the human even more, not made it easier or freer. The truth that we can never explain our conscious sentient feelings even though it is a fact of the universe that consciousness exists even if we cannot explain it, and that's what scares and exhilarates human being both at the same time, it's the realisation they known nothing of their sentient feeling being except what THEY themselves have MADE UP...in their desperate longing to belong to what is only a cold dark lonely pointless place, made to seem loving. They cannot accept that non-existence is always preferable to existence, that somehow even although suffering abounds the fact that it is possible to be alive makes it all worth it, it's all nonsense.

How can nature be good..Nature itself is the corruptor of all corruption and destruction. Even if humans went extinct the torture won't end, every predator dies horribly from starvation or disease, every prey animal dies horribly even if not caught and eaten, torn to shreds by teeth and Freddy Krueger type talons.


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Dontaskme
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:39 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:48 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
I mean if you are here now then what is not to say you cannot be here again just in some other body with a different name
There is no evidence for reincarnation but even if there was I would not want to come back in any form at all
When I die I want to stay dead forever never having to experience a single second of consciousness ever again
And especially if I had zero choice about the body and mind that I would be trapped inside of for all of its life
I'm not suggesting reincarnation, that idea is just more make-belief bullshit. I'm talking about the unborn that keeps appearing disappearing and reappearing again. And so, since the born is only ever sourced in and of the unborn, makes life for the born just an illusion of light and sound, a passing empty show, be it a horror movie or love story, it's all the same pointless empty meaningless crap that has no other purpose than to thrill and excite no one. Life is no more than a fanciful appearance that has about as much substance and reality to it than does the latest disney film to hit the screen of consciousness that no one knows anything about.

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Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:50 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:28 pm
Age wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:05 pm


Experiencing some thing is obviously worth more than not experiencing any thing. So, being born must also be better than to never have been born.

If there is no awareness, then your question is a completely moot point. There IS awareness. Therefore there IS some thing rather than no thing, and that can not be replaced.
Then saying being born is better than to never have been born is pointless,
If you say so. But to me it is not pointless.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:28 pm
if like you say there is some thing rather than no thing then there's no such state as never being born and so there's no reason to announce being born is better is there?
If there is no state as never being born, then why ask the question; "is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Can you explain WHY you think me saying; 'There is some thing rather than no thing infers, implies, or means "There is no such state and as never being born"? Are calves born? Are elephants born? Are human beings born?

Me saying; 'There is some thing rather than no thing' in no way deals with human beings becoming conscious or aware. 'you' were asking the question about being born or not born. Being born in your question relates to human beings. Human beings are individually born into existence, and then gradually they become aware, and become more aware of more things. But before human beings individually become aware of any thing, they are obviously not aware that there is some thing, rather than no thing.

Your question was in relation to 'worth'. I am saying it is worth it, or worth more, to be aware of some thing than it is to never be aware (of any thing), which means that it is also better to be aware of some thing than it is to never be aware (of any thing).
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:28 pm
If you are going to proclaim that being born is better, then better in relation to what exactly? ..

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If you are going to ask a question like; "Is it better to have never been born?", then better in relation to what exactly?

Your question specifically asked; "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?" So, if I answer your question and "proclaim" that being born is better, then I proclaim it is better to become aware, then to have never been aware. The only way for a human being to become aware is to be born. So, to me, it is better to be born, then it is to have never been born.

If, however, we want to discuss thee True One and thee Real Self, then "your" question is just purely pointless. I was never born. I exist in the HERE and NOW, always.

Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:02 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:35 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:25 pm

Even though the meaning and purpose of our universe including life within it has been explained numerous times at least theoretically, denial is such a strong motivation that many remain closed to conscious contemplation of the reality of the human condition.
So what is this theoretically explained meaning and purpose to this universe? so what's the actual plan of human existence?
To me,
The meaning of this One and only Universe IS living; being alive.

The purpose of this One and only Universe IS to make living; being alive better (or be as best living; being alive can be).

The actual 'plan' of human beings' existence IS that eventually one day an intelligent enough species (called whatever) would evolve anyway and come to have the ability to be self aware, and from that ability then they would be able to also fully understand HOW and WHY the Universe (or 'I') actually exist.

This is how I SEE things anyway, "others" see things much differently. Some even see ALL-OF-THIS as just being pointless, worthless, and completely meaningless.

Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:14 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:47 pm
Age wrote:
Also contrary to popular belief absolutely EVERY thing is alive . This can be seen when not looking from the human perspective only
Also learning knowing and being able to see this then any perceived differences or contradictions between quantum mechanics and
general relativity for example vanish
How can you do no harm if everything is alive
Why bring the word 'harm' into this?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:47 pm
There are indeed no contradictions between General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics in reality only
on the map - but the map and reality are not the same [ one is merely an approximation of the other ]
That is WHY I continually say it is much better to just LOOK AT what IS/the Truth of things, and just discuss 'that', instead of trying to imagine, assume, and theorize about what COULD BE, and keep talking about 'this'. But as has been continually proven correct throughout this thread, people think or believe that a lot of what I say is not even worth looking at and considering, and so most of what I say usually usually just gets completely dismissed and disregarded, without ever being discussed.

Instead of drawing and illustrating a "map" with words, assumptions, beliefs, theories, et cetera, why not just discuss the 'Territory/Reality/Truth' instead?

Also, and just to make sure I stay on the thread topic, it is still worth it and still much better to be born and be aware of even some of the 'territory/Reality/Truth', then it is to never be aware.

Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:20 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:55 pm
Nick wrote:
Even though the meaning and purpose of our universe including life within it has been explained numerous times at least theoretically
denial is such a strong motivation that many remain closed to conscious contemplation of the reality of the human condition
You can examine the reality of the human condition with clinical precision and come to the conclusion that there is no meaning to life
You can also examine the reality of the human condition with clinical precision and come to the conclusion that there is meaning to 'life'.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:55 pm
Also if it can only be explained in theory then there is the possibility that it could be wrong so it should not be accepted on faith alone
Agree, very strongly.

Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:23 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:08 pm
Age wrote:
Why do you say eating itself alive just to survive
The Second Law Of Thermodynamics is the greatest killer of all time - nothing else is even remotely comparable
But that law is NOT a killer. It is just another part of HOW the Universe keeps Itself always in Creation.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:08 pm
As it can virtually kill entire Universes - the only thing that it cannot kill is Existence itself because that is eternal
The One and only Universe is also eternal.

Do you think being born is worth it - or is it better to have never been born?

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