DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

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surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Okay but what about an unhealthy fetus are they not alive
An unhealthy foetus is indeed alive because unhealthy only applies to living organisms and not dead ones
As I would not describe something that was actually dead as being unhealthy as this suggests its still alive
surreptitious57
Posts: 4225
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
When and how exactly does a healthy alive but not yet come life fetus actually come to life
I think that once the foetus is alive then it has by definition come to life
Otherwise how can something that is alive still be waiting to come to life
surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
I do NOT know of any one else YET who thinks that EVERY physical thing is alive
Most adult human beings think exactly like you do in this regard
There are others who think panpsychism is true and so you are not the only one who does
But you are right in that most human beings do not think that every physical thing is alive

I am open to it as an interesting concept and think it all depends on how one defines life as I said before
Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:35 pm
Age wrote:
Thee Spiritual Being the Mind obviously never dies as It exists ALWAYS
What is Thee Spiritual Being or the Mind and why can it never die but always exists
Thee Spiritual Being is just that thing, which is some times known as thee Spirit, or Allah, God, Enlightenment, et cetera. and far less known as thee Mind, which is ALWAYS Truly OPEN.

There is an OPEN Mind within EVERY one. If some one uses the OPEN Mind is a completely other matter. But this OPEN Mind ALWAYS exist because how could it be non existent?
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:35 pmDoes it take any physical form or does it simply exist as a concept and nothing else
Well I doubt it exists as concept only as It is the very thing that has allowed ALL human beings to learn, understand, and reason. The Truly OPEN Mind is also the very thing that human beings use to imagine and create absolutely any and EVERY thing that they have. The Truly OPEN Mind is also what allows ALL human beings to learn and understand any thing new. The Truly OPEN Mind has been within human beings since their inception into existence. The Truly OPEN Mind is WHY human beings keep "progressing", learning and discovering new things and moving forward.

So, although it is far more than just a concept and actually allows things to happen, as far as 'we', human beings, know when a human body is cut open, into as many pieces as liked, there is NO Mind to be seen with the physical eyes, so this suggest that it is non visible. But as far as it being in physical form, then that is some thing, which will have to be seen for ones' self soon enough, in the future. Think of the Mind as exactly like the thoughts (or the feelings) within a human body. They can not be seen with the physical eyes, but they certain have an effect on things. They can and do cause and create the body to move and behave in certain ways. Although both thoughts and the Mind are non visible they have an obvious impact on things.

Can any one learn some thing when they are closed to it. Or, do human beings learn BEST when they are OPEN.

Do 'you', human beings, in your terms, learn more with an "OPEN Mind" or with a "closed Mind"?

A Mind, which is Truly ALWAYS OPEN to any thing, surely exists. This is evidenced by absolutely EVERY thing new that has and is being created by 'you', human beings. The Mind exists as surely as thoughts and emotions do. Is there any doubt that thoughts and emotions exist?
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:35 pmCannot a mind be defined as the thoughts of a human being or do the words
thoughts of a human being have to be written out instead of just the words a mind
Why use five words when just two will do what is the reason for this if there is one
Firstly, 'you', human beings can do absolutely any thing and every thing that you so choose to do, including things.

Even you in your proceeding post wrote:
"... but this is just my opinion so I see no reason why non biological things like stars and planets cannot be regarded as alive also if some one wishes to define them as such It all depends on how one defines alive but I am not defining it from any absolute perspective for it is just true for me"

which more or less says that any one can define any thing how they so choose to, which is exactly what having a Truly OPEN Mind allows you to do.

You are FREE to choose to do any thing, including defining any thing any way you like. So, a 'mind' can be defined any way you so choose to define it. It is completely up to you. However, if your choice of definitions are not fitting in perfectly with other things, and you are still wondering some things, then just maybe your choice of definitions could be rearranged just some.

Secondly, there was no need to go into asking if there is a need to write out five words when just two will do? From my perspective I would just use one word instead of two. I just use the one word 'thoughts' when talking about 'thoughts' AND I use the one word 'Mind' when talking about that thing within EVERY one, which allows them to imagine AND create.

So, 'you' are FREE to choose to use the two words 'a mind' to define 'the thoughts of a human being' if you so choose to do so.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:35 pmAnd are all human minds either part of or something truly separate from the Mind
Obviously if we are going to choose different definitions for the words we use when communicating with each other, then we are not going to get far in understanding each other.

If you are going to choose to use the word 'mind' as though there are many "minds", with each human being having their own "mind", then that is fair enough. But I can not answer your questions, from the definitions I use, and have you understand what it is exactly that I am saying and meaning.

I could, however, 'try' to answer your questions, from the definitions that you use, but I will not do this, as this will only continue the confusion, which 'you', human beings, find yourselves in now, when this is written.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:35 pmWhat is the actual connection between thoughts of all human beings and the Mind
Instead of saying 'thoughts of all human beings' and just asked the question; What is the actual connection between thoughts and the Mind, then the very short answer is; Thoughts are what come from the brain, which the brain gets its 'information' or 'knowledge' from the outside "world", from and through any or all of the five senses of the body.

Thoughts can be right and wrong, true or false, about things. Thoughts, literally, only think about things. Thoughts come from and will only be about what is already grasped within the brain. Thoughts are therefore limited in this sense. Whereas,

The Mind is Truly OPEN to absolutely any thing. Things can be LOOKED AT from the brain (and the already gained thoughts or thinking), which thus will only SHOW a prejudiced, skewed, distorted, limited and/or blocked view of things. Adults have had far more experiences than younger one so have far more knowledge/information to LOOK AT things from.

Or things can be LOOKED AT from a Truly OPEN perspective, without any prejudices, limiting factors like thoughts, et cetera. Younger ones, especially the very youngest of all have NO already gained knowledge or thoughts yet so just naturally LOOK AT things from this Truly 'wide-eyed', 'amazed', and 'wonderment' perspective of things. This LOOKING AT things FROM a Truly OPEN perspective is just LOOKING FROM thee Mind, whereas looking at things FROM an already pre-judiced, already "knowing", and already assuming perspective is just looking FROM the brain or FROM the already gained thoughts.

Thoughts, literally, only think 'they know what is right and wrong', whereas, the Mind does KNOW 'what is right and wrong'.

How thoughts and the Mind are actually connected is the more one is LOOKING FROM the Mind (which is ALWAYS OPEN), then the faster more new knowledge can be obtained, which then becomes thoughts. This is WHY it does NOT matter what place nor in what era a human body is born into the thoughts that come to that body come from that place and era because of the OPEN Mind. They are connected because thee OPEN Mind allows any and all thoughts to come about.

The connection is also of the upmost importance in what is about to come to be FULLY understood. Since thee Mind is God, Itself, in the spiritual sense, a Spiritual Being is absolutely hopeless, worthless, AND useless without physicality. The Spiritual Being is also nothing, in a sense, without an intelligent enough species to evolve into existence. The Spiritual Being or God is just Consciousness Itself, coming to KNOW THY-Self. This Being NEEDS a being, just like the human being, to uncover and reveal THY-Self through and from.

A machine as amazing as the human brain with its capacity to grasp and hold onto and store information and knowledge, like only the human brain can do, is where and WHY 'I', God, Itself, am becoming KNOWN, consciously. Consciousness is becoming aware of Its Self, through the thoughts within 'you', human beings. 'I', God, need the human brain, with its storage capacity to decipher in order to be able to SEE and UNDERSTAND the Universe, My Self, and HOW and WHY I am becoming WHO and WHAT I am meant to Be.

God, thee Universe AND Mind, needed 'you', human beings', and especially that Truly AMAZING human brain, to come/evolve into My Self, as much as 'you', human beings, needed 'Me', the Universe AND Mind, to come/evolve into your selves.
Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:39 pm
Age wrote:
How does life arrive
What does life mean and what does arrive mean
Does life actually arrive or is it just a perception
Did I ask 'you' this specific question in regards to what you wrote, or did I ask some one "else" this specific question in regards to what they wrote?

Because you rewrite when you quote me and just do not hit the quote box it makes it much harder to go back and look for what my question is in regards exactly, when I forget exactly to who and for what exact reason.

If this question of mine was directed to you, then the reason I asked you specifically this exact question would be because of what you exactly wrote, which I have forgotten now. So, to answer questions like; what does 'arrive' mean, then I would need to go back and find out WHY I used the word 'arrive". Obviously, it would be because of some thing that was written, so I would need to find out if it was you or some one "else" who wrote what I replied to, then ask some clarifying questions first.

It really would be much easier if the previous quote that i am replying to was added here or at least the arrow button is added so that I can find it almost instantaneously, instead of having to go back through EVERY thing till I found it.

But to answer your questions as best as I can without trudging back over things, 'Life' still means the same as what I said it does before, that is; living, being alive.
'arrive', without having any context at all and just my first thought is; coming. But the real reason I asked the question I did above is probably because if they (or you) answered it OPENLY and Honestly, then they would probably SEE that they are NOT actually able to explain How life does 'arrive'.

To me, to think or see that 'life' actually 'arrives' is just a perception, which is gained, unfortunately though misinformation and wrong teachings. But this one misconception can just be added to the very, very long list of misinformation that is continuously taught down through and to the generations, one after the other.
Atla
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Atla »

Age wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:21 pm
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:35 pm
Age wrote:
Thee Spiritual Being the Mind obviously never dies as It exists ALWAYS
What is Thee Spiritual Being or the Mind and why can it never die but always exists
Thee Spiritual Being is just that thing, which is some times known as thee Spirit, or Allah, God, Enlightenment, et cetera. and far less known as thee Mind, which is ALWAYS Truly OPEN.

There is an OPEN Mind within EVERY one. If some one uses the OPEN Mind is a completely other matter. But this OPEN Mind ALWAYS exist because how could it be non existent?
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:35 pmDoes it take any physical form or does it simply exist as a concept and nothing else
Well I doubt it exists as concept only as It is the very thing that has allowed ALL human beings to learn, understand, and reason. The Truly OPEN Mind is also the very thing that human beings use to imagine and create absolutely any and EVERY thing that they have. The Truly OPEN Mind is also what allows ALL human beings to learn and understand any thing new. The Truly OPEN Mind has been within human beings since their inception into existence. The Truly OPEN Mind is WHY human beings keep "progressing", learning and discovering new things and moving forward.

So, although it is far more than just a concept and actually allows things to happen, as far as 'we', human beings, know when a human body is cut open, into as many pieces as liked, there is NO Mind to be seen with the physical eyes, so this suggest that it is non visible. But as far as it being in physical form, then that is some thing, which will have to be seen for ones' self soon enough, in the future. Think of the Mind as exactly like the thoughts (or the feelings) within a human body. They can not be seen with the physical eyes, but they certain have an effect on things. They can and do cause and create the body to move and behave in certain ways. Although both thoughts and the Mind are non visible they have an obvious impact on things.

Can any one learn some thing when they are closed to it. Or, do human beings learn BEST when they are OPEN.

Do 'you', human beings, in your terms, learn more with an "OPEN Mind" or with a "closed Mind"?

A Mind, which is Truly ALWAYS OPEN to any thing, surely exists. This is evidenced by absolutely EVERY thing new that has and is being created by 'you', human beings. The Mind exists as surely as thoughts and emotions do. Is there any doubt that thoughts and emotions exist?
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:35 pmCannot a mind be defined as the thoughts of a human being or do the words
thoughts of a human being have to be written out instead of just the words a mind
Why use five words when just two will do what is the reason for this if there is one
Firstly, 'you', human beings can do absolutely any thing and every thing that you so choose to do, including things.

Even you in your proceeding post wrote:
"... but this is just my opinion so I see no reason why non biological things like stars and planets cannot be regarded as alive also if some one wishes to define them as such It all depends on how one defines alive but I am not defining it from any absolute perspective for it is just true for me"

which more or less says that any one can define any thing how they so choose to, which is exactly what having a Truly OPEN Mind allows you to do.

You are FREE to choose to do any thing, including defining any thing any way you like. So, a 'mind' can be defined any way you so choose to define it. It is completely up to you. However, if your choice of definitions are not fitting in perfectly with other things, and you are still wondering some things, then just maybe your choice of definitions could be rearranged just some.

Secondly, there was no need to go into asking if there is a need to write out five words when just two will do? From my perspective I would just use one word instead of two. I just use the one word 'thoughts' when talking about 'thoughts' AND I use the one word 'Mind' when talking about that thing within EVERY one, which allows them to imagine AND create.

So, 'you' are FREE to choose to use the two words 'a mind' to define 'the thoughts of a human being' if you so choose to do so.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:35 pmAnd are all human minds either part of or something truly separate from the Mind
Obviously if we are going to choose different definitions for the words we use when communicating with each other, then we are not going to get far in understanding each other.

If you are going to choose to use the word 'mind' as though there are many "minds", with each human being having their own "mind", then that is fair enough. But I can not answer your questions, from the definitions I use, and have you understand what it is exactly that I am saying and meaning.

I could, however, 'try' to answer your questions, from the definitions that you use, but I will not do this, as this will only continue the confusion, which 'you', human beings, find yourselves in now, when this is written.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:35 pmWhat is the actual connection between thoughts of all human beings and the Mind
Instead of saying 'thoughts of all human beings' and just asked the question; What is the actual connection between thoughts and the Mind, then the very short answer is; Thoughts are what come from the brain, which the brain gets its 'information' or 'knowledge' from the outside "world", from and through any or all of the five senses of the body.

Thoughts can be right and wrong, true or false, about things. Thoughts, literally, only think about things. Thoughts come from and will only be about what is already grasped within the brain. Thoughts are therefore limited in this sense. Whereas,

The Mind is Truly OPEN to absolutely any thing. Things can be LOOKED AT from the brain (and the already gained thoughts or thinking), which thus will only SHOW a prejudiced, skewed, distorted, limited and/or blocked view of things. Adults have had far more experiences than younger one so have far more knowledge/information to LOOK AT things from.

Or things can be LOOKED AT from a Truly OPEN perspective, without any prejudices, limiting factors like thoughts, et cetera. Younger ones, especially the very youngest of all have NO already gained knowledge or thoughts yet so just naturally LOOK AT things from this Truly 'wide-eyed', 'amazed', and 'wonderment' perspective of things. This LOOKING AT things FROM a Truly OPEN perspective is just LOOKING FROM thee Mind, whereas looking at things FROM an already pre-judiced, already "knowing", and already assuming perspective is just looking FROM the brain or FROM the already gained thoughts.

Thoughts, literally, only think 'they know what is right and wrong', whereas, the Mind does KNOW 'what is right and wrong'.

How thoughts and the Mind are actually connected is the more one is LOOKING FROM the Mind (which is ALWAYS OPEN), then the faster more new knowledge can be obtained, which then becomes thoughts. This is WHY it does NOT matter what place nor in what era a human body is born into the thoughts that come to that body come from that place and era because of the OPEN Mind. They are connected because thee OPEN Mind allows any and all thoughts to come about.

The connection is also of the upmost importance in what is about to come to be FULLY understood. Since thee Mind is God, Itself, in the spiritual sense, a Spiritual Being is absolutely hopeless, worthless, AND useless without physicality. The Spiritual Being is also nothing, in a sense, without an intelligent enough species to evolve into existence. The Spiritual Being or God is just Consciousness Itself, coming to KNOW THY-Self. This Being NEEDS a being, just like the human being, to uncover and reveal THY-Self through and from.

A machine as amazing as the human brain with its capacity to grasp and hold onto and store information and knowledge, like only the human brain can do, is where and WHY 'I', God, Itself, am becoming KNOWN, consciously. Consciousness is becoming aware of Its Self, through the thoughts within 'you', human beings. 'I', God, need the human brain, with its storage capacity to decipher in order to be able to SEE and UNDERSTAND the Universe, My Self, and HOW and WHY I am becoming WHO and WHAT I am meant to Be.

God, thee Universe AND Mind, needed 'you', human beings', and especially that Truly AMAZING human brain, to come/evolve into My Self, as much as 'you', human beings, needed 'Me', the Universe AND Mind, to come/evolve into your selves.
Or you could just take some antipsychotics. :)
surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
A machine as amazing as the human brain with its capacity to grasp and hold onto and store information and knowledge like only the human brain can do is where and WHY I God Itself am becoming KNOWN consciously . Consciousness is becoming aware of Its Self through the thoughts within you human beings . I God need the human brain with its storage capacity to decipher in order to be able to SEE and UNDERSTAND the Universe
My Self and HOW and WHY I am becoming WHO and WHAT I am meant to Be

God thee Universe AND Mind needed you human beings and especially that Truly AMAZING human brain to come/evolve
into My Self as much as you human beings needed Me the Universe AND Mind to come/evolve into your selves
Once again another example of me seeing something different rather than from just my own perspective
This is now the fourth example I have given and I am am not even trying at this point I am just being open

I am letting go the older I get because for me none of this really matters
I see transition on an infinite spectrum of existence the rest is just detail
Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:45 pm
Age wrote:
Where does life come from
Does life actually come from anywhere or has it instead always existed
Surely you do NOT have to ask me this question CONSIDERING what I have been writing in this thread, do you?

Remember, it was I who stated; EVERY physical thing is alive and living. Therefore, Life is ALWAYS existing HERE-NOW.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:45 pmAnd what is your particular definition of life and is that definition true
My particular definition of the word 'life' is the same one as I gave you the first time when you asked, that is; living, being alive.

'true' is only relative. So, only you can answer if it is 'true' or not. If some thing is 'true' to you, then it is true. And conversely, if some thing is 'not true' to you, then it is, obviously, not true (to you).
surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Did I ask you this specific question in regards to what you wrote or did I ask some one else this specific question in regards to what they wrote
I just wanted you to answer the questions which is why I asked them
But since it is too hard for you then just do not bother with any more
surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Surely you do NOT have to ask me this question CONSIDERING what I have been writing in this thread
Sometimes questions may have to be asked more than once unfortunately
And so they can and indeed should be asked as many times as necessary
Atla
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Atla »

Age wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:21 pm 'I', God, Itself, am becoming KNOWN, consciously.
Hey God, nice to meet you, now that you are communicating through Age, could you tell which 5-digit number I've just written down? :)
Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:52 pm
Age wrote:
What is life
What is your answer to your own question
The fourth time; living, being alive.

Also, I hope these questions of mine you are quoting and putting back on me were directed to you and not some one "else". If they were asked to some one "else", then it would have been for the specific reason of what 'THEY' had written.

Giving them the opportunity to look at and think about the questions I ask them, provides them with the opportunity to answer the question. If they answer from the Truly OPEN and Honest perspective, then they WILL SEE what is WRONG in what 'THEY', themselves, wrote.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:52 pmWhat is the relationship between life and the Mind
Every physical thing existing is alive and living. The Mind exists ALWAYS.

Therefore, the relationship of this make as you will.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:52 pmIs there any relationship between life and the Mind
There is a relationship between EVERY thing.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:52 pmDoes the Mind create life or does it just observe life
Life, like the Mind, ALWAYS exists, so the Mind does not create life, in that sense. But Mind is what allows living things, like 'you', human beings, to keep on imagining and creating new things, which is just rearranging what is preexisting into new ways, shape and forms.

The Mind, like 'you', human beings, also observes.

Absolutely EVERY thing is relative to the observer. So, in essence, it just depends on how one LOOKS AT things, what is then SEEN and LEARNED.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:52 pmCan the life forms known as human beings learn anything from the Mind
Yes, very much so.

The Mind SEES things exactly how they are, and thus the Mind KNOWS the Truth of things.

If, and when, human beings listen to what is being told to them, then they also can SEE and thus KNOW the Truth of things as well.
surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
something is true to you then it is true
Is this statement relatively true or absolutely true

Is the truth of the Mind for you a relative one or an absolute one
And if for you it is a relative one does that mean it could be false
Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:01 pm
Age wrote:
Okay but what about an unhealthy fetus are they not alive
An unhealthy foetus is indeed alive because unhealthy only applies to living organisms and not dead ones
Now I recall who I asked this question to and it was not 'you', "surreptitious57".

I asked the question NOT because I did NOT know the answer, but because I wanted that person to SEE what they are saying for themselves.

They could then decide if it is right or wrong.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:01 pmAs I would not describe something that was actually dead as being unhealthy as this suggests its still alive
I would NEVER even think that an unhealthy fetus was not alive while a healthy was alive. I just ask the question so, IF the one who wrote it looked at it and answered it Honestly, then they would notice some thing, which was obvious to me, in what they are writing and saying.

Human beings learn better (faster and simpler) if they SEE their own mistakes and wrong doing, instead of being told so.
Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:09 pm
Age wrote:
I can make a spectrum with different points on it and call that spectrum Life
But you obviously could not call your spectrum Life so what would be the name for your spectrum
which life and non life can both exist on in merely just different points
The name for my spectrum would be Existence but I could call it Life as well
That is true, you could call your spectrum "Life", but do you think it would be a bit contradictory to have a spectrum from one end to the other end called "Life", but on that spectrum is non life?
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:09 pmI could say that life has always existed but you think I could not do this but why do you think this
But I would NEVER think you could not say that life has always existed. Why did you make such an assumption like that here now?

To me, Life ALWAYS exists, anyway, so that even makes me to think such a thing as you wrote here even more stranger.

Also, would it seem somewhat strange or contradictory to have a spectrum called "Existence" but on it is points of non life? 'non life' implies or infers non existing or non existent, so to me, a spectrum on or about "Existence" would seem weird to have 'non existence' on it.
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