DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

For all things philosophical.

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Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age »

Ferdi wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:22 am
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:04 am
Age wrote:
Are you saying you see plants as matter with life but the fetus in the womb as lifeless
No because to me both plants and a foetus are biological for both are alive
I therefore see all plants and animals as being alive and all bacteria as well
I Agree.
So, if a fetus within the womb is alive, then how can some thing alive not have life yet and just be waiting the arrival of its so called "life"?

When will it, or any one for that matter, know when its "life" has arrived for it?

How does "life" arrive?

Where does "life" come from?

What is "life"?
Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age »

Ferdi wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:25 am
Ferdi wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:22 am
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:04 am

No because to me both plants and a foetus are biological for both are alive
I therefore see all plants and animals as being alive and all bacteria as well
I Agree with surreptitious and let me add that a healthy fetus is alive but has as yet not come to life.
Okay, but what about an 'unhealthy' fetus are they not alive?

When and how exactly does a healthy alive but not yet come life fetus actually come to life?
surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
But while we are here How do you distinguish between what is alive and what is not alive
I think only biological organisms such as plants and animals are alive but this is just my opinion so I see no reason why
non biological things like stars and planets cannot be regarded as alive also if some one wishes to define them as such
It all depends on how one defines alive but I am not defining it from any absolute perspective for it is just true for me
surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Thee Spiritual Being the Mind obviously never dies as It exists ALWAYS
What is Thee Spiritual Being or the Mind and why can it never die but always exists
Does it take any physical form or does it simply exist as a concept and nothing else

Cannot a mind be defined as the thoughts of a human being or do the words
thoughts of a human being have to be written out instead of just the words a mind
Why use five words when just two will do what is the reason for this if there is one

And are all human minds either part of or something truly separate from the Mind
What is the actual connection between thoughts of all human beings and the Mind
surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
How does life arrive
What does life mean and what does arrive mean
Does life actually arrive or is it just a perception
surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Where does life come from
Does life actually come from anywhere or has it instead always existed
And what is your particular definition of life and is that definition true
surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
What is life
What is your answer to your own question

What is the relationship between life and the Mind
Is there any relationship between life and the Mind
Does the Mind create life or does it just observe life

Can the life forms known as human beings learn anything from the Mind
Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:00 pm I do not think every physical thing is alive
You are not alone there.

I do NOT know of any one "else" YET who thinks that EVERY physical thing is alive. Most adult human beings think exactly like you do in this regard.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:00 pm but that given long enough something that is non living and physical can become living and physical
Will you provide some examples of things that you think are non living (and physical) but can become living (and physical)?

Are you also able to explain how this metamorphosis from the non living to living takes place?
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:00 pmI say this because before life came to exist on Earth there was non life
But there was NO, before life came to exist on earth. Since earth has been existing there has ALWAYS been life, on it and in it. The earth, itself, is living or non living, to you?

Just because 'you', human beings, do not recognize and accept some thing as life, this, itself, does not make it not life.

This, only seeing and putting "other" things relative to what the human being, itself, is, has NEVER been very helpful in Truly understanding what the Universe IS exactly and how the so called "world" (the Universe) works.

'Trying to' argue 'before life came to exist on earth, there was no life on earth', is like 'trying to' argue 'before the Universe came into existence, there was nothing prior', and then 'trying to' back this up with, there was not even a prior, which is even more farcical.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:00 pmbut when this non life became sufficiently complex it then became life
Seriously?

Do you even have an explanation of how life, itself, could actually come from nothing living or from no life previously at all?

Also WHY is "complexity" NEEDED for life to just suddenly appear and begin?

Human beings do have this tendency to just repeat what they have previously heard, without ever seriously questioning what they are told.

Saying some things are "complex" I found is a way human beings 'try to' "justify" to themselves why they do not yet know some thing as well as being a support for their 'superiority complex'. Not having a clue about how they, themselves, even work is explained as way we are just to complex to understand things like this. The absolutely and completely hilarious and contradictory thing of this at all is they, like LIfe and the Universe, Itself, are the most simple and easy thing to understand and fully KNOW. That is; once one has OPENED up to ALL-THERE-IS.
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:00 pmTo me non life and life are not polar opposites merely different points on the same spectrum
And what is that spectrum exactly?

What do you call that spectrum?
surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:00 pmI call them physics and chemistry and biology rather than life and non life which is too binary
So, where exactly again does that distinction lay alone the spectrum, which splits the non living, dead, non life existing things from the living, alive, and life things?

Remember it is you who says there is non life AND life. Just because you now say that are not polar opposites but merely different points on the same spectrum does not change the fact that it is you who is making the polar opposite distinction of non life FROM life.

I can make a spectrum with different points on it and call that spectrum Life, and it could work. But you obviously could not call your spectrum Life, so what would be the name for your spectrum, which life and non life can both exist on in merely just different points?

Do you have a name for this separating point where life and non life separate. Even on the same spectrum there has to be a specific point where life is separate from non life, if there is even such a thing as non life.

By the way, just telling me what human beings have been seeing and saying is NOT exactly explaining any thing.

Remember it is human beings who are still LOOKING FOR answers, to a lot of questions, and have a lot of problems they are still 'trying to' solve, from which they are continuously only creating more complex problems for themselves, and creating far more questions to be answered. Also, remember to human beings life is complex and hard, whereas, to me, Life is very simple and easy indeed, as I have NO unsolved problems and NO unanswered questions.

There is absolutely nothing that is complex nor hard in Life. In fact just living and being alive is about the most natural, simplest and easy thing that can be done.

But I do LOOK AT and SEE things VERY differently from how 'you', human beings, look at and see things.

I have heard what 'you', human beings, have been saying, arguing over, and fighting about for thousands upon thousands of years, and nothing has really changed at all that much in that department.

Would it really hurt that much to just 'try' and LOOK AT things differently for once?

Just telling me the same old things over and over again that 'you', human beings, SEE and think is true, although humorous, can get rather boring at times.
surreptitious57
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Okay but what about an unhealthy fetus are they not alive
An unhealthy foetus is indeed alive because unhealthy only applies to living organisms and not dead ones
As I would not describe something that was actually dead as being unhealthy as this suggests its still alive
Age
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Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:16 pm
Age wrote:
But while we are here How do you distinguish between what is alive and what is not alive
I think only biological organisms such as plants and animals are alive but this is just my opinion so I see no reason why
non biological things like stars and planets cannot be regarded as alive also if some one wishes to define them as such
It all depends on how one defines alive but I am not defining it from any absolute perspective for it is just true for me
Great point you make here and have shown.

How one defines the word 'alive', then determines what is actually alive and what is not alive.

Further to this great point you have SHOWN here is; this 'what is seen, and is thus understood' being depended solely upon how we are LOOKING AT and VIEWING things first (from the definitions of things that we ALREADY have) really does effect how we then learn and understand the "world" or Universe around 'us'.
surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
I can make a spectrum with different points on it and call that spectrum Life
But you obviously could not call your spectrum Life so what would be the name for your spectrum
which life and non life can both exist on in merely just different points
The name for my spectrum would be Existence but I could call it Life as well
I could say that life has always existed but you think I could not do this but why do you think this
surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Would it really hurt that much to just try and LOOK AT things differently for once

Just telling me the same old things over and over again that you human beings SEE and think is true can get rather boring at times
I have just now seen a different way of looking at something specifically how you define life
So why are you then asking me if it would hurt to try and look at things differently for once

But to answer your question for you again even though I am already looking at things differently right now
No I do not think that it would actually hurt at all to look at things differently for once no not remotely so

And I also hope to be able to carry on looking at things differently for once as well if you want to know
I may not always agree with you but there is nothing to stop me from just looking at them differently
surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
This only seeing and putting other things relative to what the human being itself is has NEVER been very
helpful in Truly understanding what the Universe IS exactly and how the so called world ( the Universe ) works
Another example of me seeing something different rather than from just my own perspective
I am seeing another way of looking at something that I had not looked at before in that way
surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

Age wrote:
Trying to argue before life came to exist on earth there was no life on earth is like trying to argue before the Universe came in
to existence there was nothing prior and then trying to back this up with there was not even a prior which is even more farcical
Another example of me seeing something different rather than just from my own perspective
I am seeing another way of looking at something that I had not looked at before in that way
surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 »

So that is now three examples that I have given of me looking at things in a different way
And therefore it cannot really hurt for me to look at things differently to how I see them
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