DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

surreptitious57
Posts: 4092
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:59 pm

Age wrote:
If one attempts to speak from an absolute True perspective then Life is eternal
Existence is eternal because non existence cannot persist but life is only temporary

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:21 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:59 pm
Age wrote:
If one attempts to speak from an absolute True perspective then Life is eternal
Existence is eternal because non existence cannot persist but life is only temporary
Are you talking about 'life' from your perspective only, or about Life, Itself, which is eternal? The Life is HERE-NOW forever and always. This Life is certainly NOT temporary at all.

Are you aware that there is more than just one definition for the word 'life'?

1. The 'life' of a thing. A dog, a human being, a planet, earth.
2. 'you' live a 'life'. A person's experiences.
3. A period of 'life'. Dinosaurs existence, prehistoric times, an ice age, stone age, manufacturing and agricultural period.
4. A way of 'life'. Living the greedy, war-torn way compared to living the peaceful and loving way.
5. 'Life', Itself. Existence, which is just Life, eternal.

Four of these 'lifes' are temporary. One is not.

Also, contrary to popular belief absolutely EVERY thing is alive. This can be seen when not looking from the human perspective only. Some/most things are just alive beyond human recognition. Also, learning, knowing and being able to see this, then any perceived differences or contradictions between quantum mechanics and general relativity for example vanish. Seeing HOW every thing is alive the Truth appears clear while supposed differences and contradictions disappear.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 8359
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:30 pm

Age wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:32 pm


Experiencing some thing is obviously worth more than not experiencing any thing. So, being born must also be better than to never have been born.
But had you not have been born at all, then there would have been no awareness of you ever having been deprived of experiencing something rather than nothing, and so that something would never have happened anyway, so how can being born be better than not being born ?

.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 8359
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:46 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:50 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
So for you - you have just experienced life for as long as you have lived only to be zapped out of living for eternity never to
know you were even here in the first place . What is the point in that ? did you enjoy yourself would you want to do it again
No I most definitely would not want to do it again - one life is more than enough for me
The point of it is whatever you want it to be - for me there is no point to life - it just is
I agree life is pointless. And that it just is, and it's clear there doesn't seem to be a permanent off switch. And so even if one did decide they could take control and kill themself, that doesn't change the problem of there being more lives born every second suffering the same pointless existence as the one who killed itself. The pointless existence still persists pointlessly without any point or purpose but just to satisfy it's own addiction to living. That's what it seems like to me. The universe is just one huge organism that is eating itself alive just to survive. Totally pointless.



.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:30 pm
Age wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:32 pm


Experiencing some thing is obviously worth more than not experiencing any thing. So, being born must also be better than to never have been born.
But had you not have been born at all, then there would have been no awareness of you ever having been deprived of experiencing something rather than nothing,
Obviously.

That is WHY I also expressed the exact same thing, and expressed what I did the way I did.

If there is no awareness, then your question is a completely moot point. There IS awareness. Therefore there IS some thing rather than no thing, and that can not be replaced.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:30 pm
and so that something would never have happened anyway, so how can being born be better than not being born ?

.
But some thing HAS HAPPENED. So, as I said; Experiencing some thing is obviously worth more than not experiencing any thing.

Having an experience is gaining some thing.
Gaining some thing is worth more than not gaining any thing.
Any experience is worth more than no experiencing.
Just like any thing is obviously worth more than no thing.

EVERY experience is a gain.
Being born, into or through a physical body, is the only way to experience.
Being born HAS happened.
So, to question what one would think is better if they were not born, is just nonsensical. 'Idiotic' some might say.

If there was no birth, then obviously there would be no awareness, no thing would be experienced, nor known, so what is 'worth' more or 'better' would not even be in question. However, considering birth has already taken place, then experiencing and being aware of some thing has obviously already happened, and, like I said; Experiencing some thing is obviously worth more than not experiencing any thing.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Age » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:18 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:46 pm
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:50 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
So for you - you have just experienced life for as long as you have lived only to be zapped out of living for eternity never to
know you were even here in the first place . What is the point in that ? did you enjoy yourself would you want to do it again
No I most definitely would not want to do it again - one life is more than enough for me
The point of it is whatever you want it to be - for me there is no point to life - it just is
I agree life is pointless.
I SEE a point to ALL life.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:46 pm
And that it just is, and it's clear there doesn't seem to be a permanent off switch.
To me, Life just IS direct to the point and eternal.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:46 pm
And so even if one did decide they could take control and kill themself, that doesn't change the problem of there being more lives born every second suffering the same pointless existence as the one who killed itself.
But after I found the point to Life, there is certainly NO suffering and certainly NO pointless existence at all.

Why do you see a "problem" with things being born?
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:46 pm
The pointless existence still persists pointlessly without any point or purpose but just to satisfy it's own addiction to living.
To me the purpose and the point are very real, and make life worth very worth living.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:46 pm
That's what it seems like to me.
It IS the exact opposite to me.
Dontaskme wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:46 pm
The universe is just one huge organism that is eating itself alive just to survive. Totally pointless.



.
Why do you say "eating itself alive" "just to survive"?

The saying "eating one's self alive" usually infers or implies to me 'killing one's self'. But maybe you mean some thing altogether completely different here?

Nick_A
Posts: 4901
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Nick_A » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:25 pm

Dam wrote:
I agree life is pointless. And that it just is, and it's clear there doesn't seem to be a permanent off switch. And so even if one did decide they could take control and kill themself, that doesn't change the problem of there being more lives born every second suffering the same pointless existence as the one who killed itself. The pointless existence still persists pointlessly without any point or purpose but just to satisfy it's own addiction to living. That's what it seems like to me. The universe is just one huge organism that is eating itself alive just to survive. Totally pointless.
Even though the meaning and purpose of our universe including life within it has been explained numerous times at least theoretically, denial is such a strong motivation that many remain closed to conscious contemplation of the reality of the human condition. So the battles within Plato's cave persist. The Great Beast smiles its approval.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 8359
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:28 pm

Age wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:05 pm


Experiencing some thing is obviously worth more than not experiencing any thing. So, being born must also be better than to never have been born.

If there is no awareness, then your question is a completely moot point. There IS awareness. Therefore there IS some thing rather than no thing, and that can not be replaced.
Then saying being born is better than to never have been born is pointless, if like you say there is some thing rather than no thing then there's no such state as never being born and so there's no reason to announce being born is better is there?

If you are going to proclaim that being born is better, then better in relation to what exactly? ..

.

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 8359
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:35 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:25 pm

Even though the meaning and purpose of our universe including life within it has been explained numerous times at least theoretically, denial is such a strong motivation that many remain closed to conscious contemplation of the reality of the human condition.
So what is this theoretically explained meaning and purpose to this universe? so what's the actual plan of human existence?

surreptitious57
Posts: 4092
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:47 pm

Age wrote:
Also contrary to popular belief absolutely EVERY thing is alive . This can be seen when not looking from the human perspective only
Also learning knowing and being able to see this then any perceived differences or contradictions between quantum mechanics and
general relativity for example vanish
How can you do no harm if everything is alive

There are indeed no contradictions between General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics in reality only
on the map - but the map and reality are not the same [ one is merely an approximation of the other ]

surreptitious57
Posts: 4092
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:55 pm

Nick wrote:
Even though the meaning and purpose of our universe including life within it has been explained numerous times at least theoretically
denial is such a strong motivation that many remain closed to conscious contemplation of the reality of the human condition
You can examine the reality of the human condition with clinical precision and come to the conclusion that there is no meaning to life
Also if it can only be explained in theory then there is the possibility that it could be wrong so it should not be accepted on faith alone

surreptitious57
Posts: 4092
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:08 pm

Age wrote:
Why do you say eating itself alive just to survive
The Second Law Of Thermodynamics is the greatest killer of all time - nothing else is even remotely comparable
As it can virtually kill entire Universes - the only thing that it cannot kill is Existence itself because that is eternal

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 8359
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:12 pm

Age wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Being born HAS happened.
So, to question what one would think is better if they were not born, is just nonsensical. 'Idiotic' some might say.
Knowledge informs the human is it born. So now you are informed you are born, then you now have the knowledge not to impose a birth upon someone else. The only reason you know being born is happening is because you are knowledgeable about that happening. And you also know a someone else can be born as well. So the question of whether it's better to have never been born is pretty valid in my logic, because if you know you can be born then you can also know that it's better to have never been born, especially if being born has been a very unpleasant experience. Now because you have the knowledge that being born is possible, then it must also be true that you can have the knowledge of it being better never to have been born as well.

So now that you know that a persons birth can be unpredictable in the sense it can be born with hideous disadvantages, disabilities that may subject it to a life time of suffering, which are numerous in the way they are delivered to that person..etc etc.., and that suffering and pain, mental and emotional torment and abuse, is an unbearable, horrible, unpleasant and an unavoidable part of living, why would any one with such knowledge continue to want that? the chances are the next person born will be knowledgable of such experiences as well, so why would an informed person want to pass that knowledge on to someone else when they know damn well the consequences of their own actions in their desire for sex is going to re-create more of that suffering on someone else? That's the deep question I'm trying to get to here. That's basically what humans are doing all the time when they have sex, they are feeding their addiction to living.

.

surreptitious57
Posts: 4092
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:22 pm

Being dead forever means being free from suffering forever and so that is one advantage over being alive
Once you are born you will experience suffering in some way and it may want you to wish you were dead
Death is usually regarded as something negative even though it is unavoidable but I see the good it brings

User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 8359
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: DAM asked: "Is being born worth it - or is it better to have never been born?"

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:44 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:22 pm
Being dead forever means being free from suffering forever and so that is one advantage over being alive
Once you are born you will experience suffering in some way and it may want you to wish you were dead
Death is usually regarded as something negative even though it is unavoidable but I see the good it brings
I can see some point in that statement, but it still doesn't eradicate the problem of suffering.

Look at it like this man...the character that is surreptitious57 by name, is in all actuality just this apparent sensation of being alive right? So who is to say that this sensation of being alive won't happen again and again and again..I mean if you are here now, then what's not to say you can't be here again just in some other body with a different name...you see, when you look at it from that perspective, death just seems like a little sleep, the kind you get in the waking dream of life, the one you wake up from each morning. What if what you think is death, is just you having a sleep until you wake up to find yourself in a new body. If you are here now being you, then surely, it could happen again for ever?

How can you possibly know that you can be dead forever?

That's how I see it anyway.

.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests