Past, PRESENT--future?

For all things philosophical.

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Richardmc
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Richardmc » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 pm

The future is not real YET, Skepdick.

Skepdick
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Skepdick » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:24 pm

Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:22 pm
The future is not real YET, Skepdick.
Obviously. It's not real YET. And the past is not real ANY MORE.

If the most important thing to you is that which is REAL, then why are you concerning yourself with things which are not?

Richardmc
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Richardmc » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:26 pm

Obviously, you are not getting what I have said. Ah, well.

Skepdick
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Skepdick » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:30 pm

Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:26 pm
Obviously, you are not getting what I have said. Ah, well.
I do get what you have said. That is why I am asking you the questions which I am asking you.

If "Future time does not exist except as a concept", why are you wearing a seatbelt?

Your future car crash is only a concept. It's not real. Why is the not-real future having an effect on the present?

Age
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Age » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:36 pm

Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:31 am
This is written to unify my statements and to add a couple of sentences. "There is a crucial division between the past and present vs. future. Reality happens or has happened- it does not exist in the future.
It has also been said that what happens or has happened is what is really happening or has really happened, but they are not reality. 'Reality' is what we MAKE happen.
Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:31 am
If it has not yet happened, it is not real, other than as a concept.
But we can have a concept and really make it happen or make it really happen, so that it becomes reality.
Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:31 am
This is also true of time.
'Time' is nothing more than just a word we use, which helps to describe the process that we use when 'trying to' "separate" the one and only continuous event of NOW.
Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:31 am
Time always starts now.
Some one once said something like; the faster we travel the slower time goes, and at the speed of light time stops. This is not at all true. What happens is the faster we go it just APPEARS as though time slows down.

There is NO such thing as time, that could go slower nor faster.

What human beings use to make calculations about apparent separate events are the human made contraptions called clocks. Although these are said to measure time, which is an absolutely incorrect usage of terms, clocks are set to a certain rate of change. They are devised to function in accordance with and relative to light. We change to the rate of change of clocks to suit to the sun. We do not change the rate of change of the sun to suit our clocks.

So, when one is traveling closer to the speed of light there is just an APPEARANCE of "time slowing down", and if one could travel at the speed of light, then it would only APPEAR as "time has stopped". This APPEARANCE of "time stopping" is only because that one would have traveled whatever distance they did in no "time" at all. Not because there is an actual thing as time, which could actually be stopped. The NOW that they left one place would be the exact same NOW when they arrived at another place, IF they just traveled at the speed of light.

Although the body would age just as normally as it normally does, over the distance of the trip and however long the actual trip took, the APPEARANCE that they have traveled in no "time" at all remains the same. This is because EVERY thing is relative to the observer, there is no such actual thing at time, and that they were traveling at the same speed as light takes to get anywhere. The last one giving the APPEARANCE.
Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:31 am
Future time only exists as a concept. Everything happens now- it is always now. This includes time, which always starts and happens now. Being conscious is being here now. Time passing is dynamic moments of now, now, now, etc. The future, meanwhile, NEVER arrives."
The future may NEVER arrive, but is this because it is also always HERE, in the NOW?

Is there any thing that is NOT in the HERE and NOW? Where is the 'past' if it is not in the HERE and NOW.

To me the HERE-NOW is always-forever.

The HERE-NOW is just One event in constant-change.

Age
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Age » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:42 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:30 pm
Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:26 pm
Obviously, you are not getting what I have said. Ah, well.
I do get what you have said. That is why I am asking you the questions which I am asking you.

If "Future time does not exist except as a concept", why are you wearing a seatbelt?

Your future car crash is only a concept. It's not real. Why is the not-real future having an effect on the present?
Because human beings worry. They worry about what COULD, but may not, HAPPEN. Most human beings do not want to stop living so they put on their seat belts so as to avoid dying.

Skepdick
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Skepdick » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:45 pm

Age wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:42 pm
Because human beings worry. They worry about what COULD, but may not, HAPPEN. Most human beings do not want to stop living so they put on their seat belts so as to avoid dying.
Why worry about things that aren't "real"?

I am only pointing out that "realness" is not the same thing as "importantness".

Age
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Age » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:18 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:45 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:42 pm
Because human beings worry. They worry about what COULD, but may not, HAPPEN. Most human beings do not want to stop living so they put on their seat belts so as to avoid dying.
Why worry about things that aren't "real"?
Maybe the person has not formulated how to word it correctly yet, for you?

But just because some thing is a concept that does not mean that it can not become 'real'.
Skepdick wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:45 pm
I am only pointing out that "realness" is not the same thing as "importantness".

And I was just pointing out what COULD happen may not be 'real' YET.

What is 'importantness' here?

WHY do you wear a seat belt?

Because the accident or ticket you are worrying about is real, or because they COULD happen and become 'real'?

What you worry about may NEVER ever become 'real', but maybe it will.

Human beings have the capacity to conceptualize, or conceive of, what COULD happen, but which is not actually 'real' yet or may never be.

jayjacobus
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by jayjacobus » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:41 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:19 pm
Richardmc wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:47 am
Wearing a seatbelt is an example of prudent behavior. In other words, acting now(reality) to avert possible danger, which might or might not occur(future).
OK, but if the future isn't real why are you worried about future danger?
Because you can lose your job, your home, your money and your health in the future.

Do you buy insurance?

Skepdick
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Skepdick » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:52 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:41 pm
Because you can lose your job, your home, your money and your health in the future.
If the future is not real to you, then losing your job, your home, your money and your health is not real.
jayjacobus wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:41 pm
Do you buy insurance?
All the time! The future is real ;) It's more real than the past.

The future can kill you - the past can't.

Age
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Age » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:39 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:52 pm
jayjacobus wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:41 pm
Because you can lose your job, your home, your money and your health in the future.
If the future is not real to you, then losing your job, your home, your money and your health is not real.
jayjacobus wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:41 pm
Do you buy insurance?
All the time! The future is real ;) It's more real than the past.
So, if you buy insurance, then you would agree that you do not know what the real future is YET, or you do not know what will really happen in the future YET, correct?

If yes, then this is just more or less all the "other" person is saying also.
Skepdick wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:52 pm
The future can kill you - the past can't.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:07 pm

There seems to be the sense that there is future time that can exist. There isn't. There is no place in the past that can exist either.

Notice there is a sense that the past and future can be visited - But past and future are ideas appearing here now the only real place.

HERE NOW is a place that never moves or happens. Happenings only exist in the past and future that is here and now the only place you NOTICE the happenings that are not happening.

What seems to be moving from past to future in linear time is actually standing perfectly still.

.

surreptitious57
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by surreptitious57 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 pm

Dontaskme wrote:
What seems to be moving from past to future in linear time is actually standing perfectly still
Do we move through time or does time move through us or does it not actually matter which one it is
I think it exists but some physicists think it could be an illusion but that is too counterintuitive for me

Age
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Age » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:42 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
What seems to be moving from past to future in linear time is actually standing perfectly still
Do we move through time or does time move through us or does it not actually matter which one it is
I think it exists but some physicists think it could be an illusion but that is too counterintuitive for me
There is NO actual thing as time.

There is, instead, just One event in continual constant-change. There is only One event that can be observed and actually be Aware of. That One is the one HERE-NOW.

This eternal Existence observed HERE-NOW is unchanging in that it is contantly-changing.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Past, PRESENT--future?

Post by Dontaskme » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:52 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
What seems to be moving from past to future in linear time is actually standing perfectly still
Do we move through time or does time move through us or does it not actually matter which one it is
I think it exists but some physicists think it could be an illusion but that is too counterintuitive for me
We don't move through time. Time moves through us. 'Us' being the eternal now which is just another word for empty space, which is just another word for empty awareness or beingness or whatever else concept arises here now from the only source available which is the VOID ITSELF...which tends to avoid itself as it prefers to focus on it's known concepts, the only face it has.

.

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