Philosophy is created by belief!

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richardstephens
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Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by richardstephens » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:38 am

Yes, being an atheist myself it may sound strange, but I'm not necessarily talking about belief as in religion, rather I talk about belief like "believing in yourself", "believing in what you do", "believing in the virtue of x or the importance of y".

I've found that as I've been working on my philosophy of needs the real drive in me seems to be a belief and/or faith in the virtues of "need" that I can trace all the way back to my early childhood, a way of thinking that is encouraged in Norwegian society, taught by parents and school teachers, and yet not of course in the way I've done it, but the word "need", "human needs", "animals needs", "planet's needs", the needs of institutions and groups, have been such a recurring theme. People talk so much about what they need all the time to become something or to preserve something. In this sense I feel like a product of my time.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:24 am

richardstephens wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:38 am
Yes, being an atheist myself it may sound strange, but I'm not necessarily talking about belief as in religion, rather I talk about belief like "believing in yourself", "believing in what you do", "believing in the virtue of x or the importance of y".

I've found that as I've been working on my philosophy of needs the real drive in me seems to be a belief and/or faith in the virtues of "need" that I can trace all the way back to my early childhood, a way of thinking that is encouraged in Norwegian society, taught by parents and school teachers, and yet not of course in the way I've done it, but the word "need", "human needs", "animals needs", "planet's needs", the needs of institutions and groups, have been such a recurring theme. People talk so much about what they need all the time to become something or to preserve something. In this sense I feel like a product of my time.
Projected assumptions = belief

It all begins and ends with the Munchauseen trillema, a problem philosophy ignores because it kills all of it. However the trillema sets up the foundation for platonic forms, atomism/wholism, etc if analysed close enough.

If philosophy would get its head out of its ass, it would observe this problem as a premise with it's own solution.

Age
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by Age » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:38 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:24 am
richardstephens wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:38 am
Yes, being an atheist myself it may sound strange, but I'm not necessarily talking about belief as in religion, rather I talk about belief like "believing in yourself", "believing in what you do", "believing in the virtue of x or the importance of y".

I've found that as I've been working on my philosophy of needs the real drive in me seems to be a belief and/or faith in the virtues of "need" that I can trace all the way back to my early childhood, a way of thinking that is encouraged in Norwegian society, taught by parents and school teachers, and yet not of course in the way I've done it, but the word "need", "human needs", "animals needs", "planet's needs", the needs of institutions and groups, have been such a recurring theme. People talk so much about what they need all the time to become something or to preserve something. In this sense I feel like a product of my time.
Projected assumptions = belief

It all begins and ends with the Munchauseen trillema, a problem philosophy ignores because it kills all of it. However the trillema sets up the foundation for platonic forms, atomism/wholism, etc if analysed close enough.

If philosophy would get its head out of its ass, it would observe this problem as a premise with it's own solution.
What is the solution to what you see as being a "problem"?

surreptitious57
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:51 am

Mathematical proofs are not really a problem for the trillema because its axioms are only true within mathematics
Its more of a problem with regard to reality because due to the problem of induction knowledge is never absolute
Knowledge however does increase over time but anything that is falsified by default becomes knowledge anyway

Age
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by Age » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:21 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:51 am
Mathematical proofs are not really a problem for the trillema because its axioms are only true within mathematics
Its more of a problem with regard to reality because due to the problem of induction knowledge is never absolute
Knowledge however does increase over time but anything that is falsified by default becomes knowledge anyway
I do not see a 'problem' anywhere here, and especially what you are alluding to either, thus the reason I put the "problem" word in double quotation marks. I was just curious as to what that human being was seeing is the 'solution' to the 'problem', which they see, and say has its own solution.

surreptitious57
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:28 pm

Eodnhoj wrote:
However the trillema sets up the foundation for platonic forms atomism / wholism etc if analysed close enough
I think that there will always be gaps in knowledge no matter how close any analysis will be
For you cannot apply the principle of proof [ other than with disproof ] to empirical reality

A problem like infinite regress for example could not be resolved at any time were it discovered to be true
And if there was instead a finite point that was an absolute limit then science would not know where it was

Falsification or disproof may be absolute forms of knowledge but the problem of induction will always remain

Skepdick
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by Skepdick » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:37 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:28 pm
A problem like infinite regress for example could not be resolved at any time were it discovered to be true
Infinite regress doesn't have to be resolved. It needs to be recognized for what it is - recursion.

If you google for 'recursion theory' you will get to this:
Computability theory, also known as recursion theory, is a branch of mathematical logic, of computer science, and of the theory of computation that originated in the 1930s with the study of computable functions and Turing degrees.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:28 pm
And if there was instead a finite point that was an absolute limit then science would not know where it was
From computation, the 'finite point' leap is much easier

Fixed points are mathematical and computational theorems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleene%27 ... nt_theorem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-point_theorem

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HexHammer
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by HexHammer » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:26 pm

richardstephens wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:38 am
Yes, being an atheist myself it may sound strange, but I'm not necessarily talking about belief as in religion, rather I talk about belief like "believing in yourself", "believing in what you do", "believing in the virtue of x or the importance of y".

I've found that as I've been working on my philosophy of needs the real drive in me seems to be a belief and/or faith in the virtues of "need" that I can trace all the way back to my early childhood, a way of thinking that is encouraged in Norwegian society, taught by parents and school teachers, and yet not of course in the way I've done it, but the word "need", "human needs", "animals needs", "planet's needs", the needs of institutions and groups, have been such a recurring theme. People talk so much about what they need all the time to become something or to preserve something. In this sense I feel like a product of my time.
Please go elsewhere and spew your pure skitzo nonsense and babble!!

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:48 pm

Age wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:38 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:24 am
richardstephens wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:38 am
Yes, being an atheist myself it may sound strange, but I'm not necessarily talking about belief as in religion, rather I talk about belief like "believing in yourself", "believing in what you do", "believing in the virtue of x or the importance of y".

I've found that as I've been working on my philosophy of needs the real drive in me seems to be a belief and/or faith in the virtues of "need" that I can trace all the way back to my early childhood, a way of thinking that is encouraged in Norwegian society, taught by parents and school teachers, and yet not of course in the way I've done it, but the word "need", "human needs", "animals needs", "planet's needs", the needs of institutions and groups, have been such a recurring theme. People talk so much about what they need all the time to become something or to preserve something. In this sense I feel like a product of my time.
Projected assumptions = belief

It all begins and ends with the Munchauseen trillema, a problem philosophy ignores because it kills all of it. However the trillema sets up the foundation for platonic forms, atomism/wholism, etc if analysed close enough.

If philosophy would get its head out of its ass, it would observe this problem as a premise with it's own solution.
What is the solution to what you see as being a "problem"?
Don't ignore the Munchauseen trillema, nor the rest of the fallacies which are variations of it, use it as a foundation. The trillema, in its form and function, is equivalent to the monad(s) which represent at base minimum the psychological state through which we measure reality.

Use fallacies as foundations, they cancel themselves out under there own logic. Each fallacy effectively negates the other.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:51 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:51 am
Mathematical proofs are not really a problem for the trillema because its axioms are only true within mathematics
Its more of a problem with regard to reality because due to the problem of induction knowledge is never absolute
Knowledge however does increase over time but anything that is falsified by default becomes knowledge anyway
Not really.

All numbers are assumptions considering the number 1 itself is purely assumed. It is a base act of assumption where reality is localized into a point of awareness. Consciousness is both quantitative and qualitive.

All number infinitely regress, with all numbers in and of themselves composed of infinite regressive relations of other numbers (ex: 1 = 3-2, 4-3, etc.).

All numbers cycle (1 added to 1 equals 2 which added to 1 equals 3 which added to 3 equals 4....etc. the number line is actually a spiral). This occurs with the isomorphic nature of certain facets of math.


I can go further. The trillema observes all of reality, with "all" including the basic abstractions of math.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:55 pm

Skepdick wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:37 pm
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:28 pm
A problem like infinite regress for example could not be resolved at any time were it discovered to be true
Infinite regress doesn't have to be resolved. It needs to be recognized for what it is - recursion.

If you google for 'recursion theory' you will get to this:
Computability theory, also known as recursion theory, is a branch of mathematical logic, of computer science, and of the theory of computation that originated in the 1930s with the study of computable functions and Turing degrees.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:28 pm
And if there was instead a finite point that was an absolute limit then science would not know where it was
From computation, the 'finite point' leap is much easier

Fixed points are mathematical and computational theorems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleene%27 ... nt_theorem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-point_theorem
Agreed. I would argue even further finiteness is strictly multiple infinities.

surreptitious57
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:11 pm

Eodnhoj wrote:
the number line is actually a spiral
The number line is always presented as an infinite horizontal line extending to negative infinity on the left and
positive infinity on the right with zero in the absolute middle [ as the only non negative / non positive integer ]
The complex number line is perpendicular to it and both lines intersect once at their two respective zero points
Now I suppose that it could in theory be spiral but what purpose would it actually serve to be presented as such

Impenitent
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by Impenitent » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:27 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:11 pm
Eodnhoj wrote:
the number line is actually a spiral
The number line is always presented as an infinite horizontal line extending to negative infinity on the left and
positive infinity on the right with zero in the absolute middle [ as the only non negative / non positive integer ]
The complex number line is perpendicular to it and both lines intersect once at their two respective zero points
Now I suppose that it could in theory be spiral but what purpose would it actually serve to be presented as such
is zero a complex number?

-Imp

interesting... it is by definition... complex = a + bi

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:44 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:11 pm
Eodnhoj wrote:
the number line is actually a spiral
The number line is always presented as an infinite horizontal line extending to negative infinity on the left and
positive infinity on the right with zero in the absolute middle [ as the only non negative / non positive integer ]

Assumptions, the number line can be observed as a recursive spiral in either direction as well without negating the sequence of the numbers.

Lines are strictly recursive points, and as such necessitate an inherent looping strictly because the premise is in the conclusion.





The complex number line is perpendicular to it and both lines intersect once at their two respective zero points
Now I suppose that it could in theory be spiral but what purpose would it actually serve to be presented as such
It isn't a theory, you just draw it out.

1 is directed to 2
Two cycles back to 1 which in turn is directed to 3.
3 cycles to 1 directing itself to 4.
Etc.

The continual presence of 1 necessitates an inherent looping founding within linear recursion.

Age
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Re: Philosophy is created by belief!

Post by Age » Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:30 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:48 pm
Age wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:38 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:24 am

Projected assumptions = belief

It all begins and ends with the Munchauseen trillema, a problem philosophy ignores because it kills all of it. However the trillema sets up the foundation for platonic forms, atomism/wholism, etc if analysed close enough.

If philosophy would get its head out of its ass, it would observe this problem as a premise with it's own solution.
What is the solution to what you see as being a "problem"?
Don't ignore the Munchauseen trillema, nor the rest of the fallacies which are variations of it, use it as a foundation.

The trillema, in its form and function, is equivalent to the monad(s) which represent at base minimum the psychological state through which we measure reality.

Use fallacies as foundations, they cancel themselves out under there own logic. Each fallacy effectively negates the other.
Do you have any examples?

I still have no idea what the actual "problem" is that you say has its own 'solution'. What is the actual "problem" and what is the 'solution'?

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