Individualism vs. Collectivism

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Nick_A
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

Post by Nick_A »

RCSaunders wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:26 pm
Nick_A wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:42 am Obviously we have different understandings as to the meaning and purpose of Christianity. I don't believe in the personal God so there is nothing to appease.
All religion and mysticism is nonsense, and most of it is not only wrong, but dangerous. But most people do embrace some form of superstition or another and I have found it interesting to study most of those superstitions.

However, I think it is dishonest to claim adherence to a specific superstition, such as Christianity, and to quote its accepted authority, the Bible, and then contradict both the teachings of that religion and what the Bible actually says. One is certainly free to make up their own religion which is a mishmash of other religions (it's called syncretism), but to claim that monstrosity is one of the religions one has borrowed from is deceitful.
You don’t understand what a perennial tradition is - that it always was . You are unaware of the distinction between exoteric and esoteric teachings so must limit yourself to rejecting exoteric beliefs. Fortunately there are those who are still aware that esoteric Christianity is a perennial tradition
………………..Jesus indicated that his message consisted of a public (exoteric) message for all the people and an advanced (esoteric) teaching reserved for initiates.

The Esoteric Tradition
Mark 4: "Then when they were by themselves, his close followers and the twelve asked about the parables, and he told them: 'The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those who do not know the secret, everything remains in parables, so that, seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand lest haply they should turn again, and it should be forgiven them.'"

"So he taught them his message with many parables such as their minds could take in. He did not speak to them at all without using parables, although in private he explained everything to his disciples." [Phillips translation]

Matthew 13: "The man who has ears to hear should use them"
"At this the disciples approached him and asked, 'Why do you talk to them in parables?
"'Because you have been given the chance to understand the secrets of the kingdom of Heaven,' replied Jesus, 'but they have not. For when a man has something, more is given to him till he has plenty. But if he has nothing even his nothing will be taken away from him. This is why I speak to them in these parables; because they go through life with their eyes open, but see nothing, and with their ears open, but understand nothing of what they hear."' [Phillips translation]

1 Corinthians 2:6-15: "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: which none of the princes of this world knew.

"We interpret what is spiritual in spiritual language. The unspiritual man rejects these truths of the Spirit of God; to him they are 'sheer folly,' he cannot understand them. And the reason is, that they must be read with the spiritual eye. The spiritual man, again, can read the meaning of everything; and yet no one can read what he is."

Clement of Alexandria (150-220 C.E.)

"The Lord . . . allowed us to communicate of those divine Mysteries, and of that holy light, to those who are able to receive them. He did not certainly disclose to the many what did not belong to the many; but to the few to whom He knew that they belonged, who were capable of receiving and being moulded according to them. But secret things are entrusted to speech, not to writing, as is the case with God."

"Many things, I well know, have escaped us, through length of time, that have dropped away unwritten."
"Even now I fear, as it is said, 'to cast the pearls before swine, lest they tread them underfoot, and turn and rend us.' For it is difficult to exhibit the really pure and transparent words respecting the true Light to swinish and untrained hearers."……………………………………………………….
You seem to be reacting against superficial expressions of exoteric and man made Christendom. Fortunately there are still those with eyes to see and ears to hear which enable them to begin to understand the objective meaning and purpose of Christianity rather than continually reacting to what is is not understood. Jacob Needleman describes what made him begin to understand.

https://thewayofimprovement.com/2010/01 ... ve-in-god/
How did your ideas about religion change?

Well, as I say, in my life it was more or less thrust upon me. I needed a job. It was 1962—ancient times—I was hired at San Francisco State and I was obliged to teach a course called the History of Western Religious Thought. For me I had no desire to teach anything like that. I was totally allergic to religion. But I had training as a philosophy student, a grad student, a PhD. I did very well, was at the best colleges, best universities— Harvard, Yale—and I was willing to undertake preparing myself to teach such a course. Philosophers generally don’t want to come anywhere near that kind of stuff—nor did I. But I honorably tried to prepare myself.
It meant I had to read theologians, Christian writers like St. Augustine—whom I had hated. You see in my book where I talk about burning the pages of the book, that’s exactly what happened. I’m not exaggerating. I was so happy to see it go up in flames; I had suffered so much from that book. And later I read it and I loved it—a great, great man.
So it forced me to read and prepare myself, and I couldn’t believe how superficial my understanding of religion had been, even with a liberal education from the best universities. I discovered things about religion; I couldn’t believe how good, how interesting, how profound—and how distorted it had become, how shallow it had become. So more and more I got deeply interested in religion because I had to teach it. And then I got personally interested in my own personal, spiritual search which I started to undertake.
The majority prefer to react and reject. There are those like Prof Needleman who are willing to understand rather than just give in to reacting to negative life experiences. He was able to experience that he was reacting to worldly interpretations. You prefer to react and condemn while I am humble enough to admit the depth of a perennial tradition which threatens my attachment to the darkness of Plato’s cave.
Nick_A
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

Post by Nick_A »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:33 am
Nick_A wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:07 am ...being born again is the experience of a new perspective...
I think you'll find that, in John 3, for example, it's a good deal more than that. One can get one's own "new perspective." But this is a birth from God, one distinct from the first. It's not something that comes with the first birth, as Nicodemus rightly understands.

I think the questions on which we may be differing is source and depth of the required transformation. It sounds to me (and forgive me if I read this wrongly) that you mean simply a change of mind initiated by the individual himself or herself. It seems to me the Biblical view is that more is required...not just a new attitude, but a reconstitution of being by the actual intervention of God: hence, the term "new birth," rather than, say, "new perspective."

How do you understand what is meant by "the renewing of your mind?"
Ah. Romans 12.

I'm fine with that. I have some ideas. But what are you thinking it means?
You may well be right and most of our differences are concerned with what is meant by the word mind.
Matthew 11

11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
As I understand it, to be born again is the transition from the reactive mechanical animal mind to the the conscious mind including the vertical third dimension of thought which reconciles dualism Transformation into a higher quality of being is possible after the born again experience, It will include the gradual change of perspective and of values Paul wrote of. Renewing the mind doesn't refer to the dualistic literal mind but rather the mind of the whole Man - the New Man.

Metanoia is really impossible to describe to a person who hasn't experienced it and is closed to anything but the dualistic animal mind. Renewing the mind is related to anamnesis described by Plato. It is remembered and renewed through the third dimension of thought.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

Post by Immanuel Can »

Nick_A wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:53 pm ...the dualistic animal mind....
I'm not sure why you add the word "dualistic." Do you mean that you think some kind of monism is true, and metanoia means becoming a monist?

What would your support be for the view that monism is true, in that case?

I think we're still not clear on the mechanism of the new birth, too. In your view, is it an actual divine action, or just a change of perspective induced by the individual?
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

Post by Nick_A »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:32 pm
Nick_A wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:53 pm ...the dualistic animal mind....
I'm not sure why you add the word "dualistic." Do you mean that you think some kind of monism is true, and metanoia means becoming a monist?

What would your support be for the view that monism is true, in that case?

I think we're still not clear on the mechanism of the new birth, too. In your view, is it an actual divine action, or just a change of perspective induced by the individual?
The dualistc mind reacts to one of two forces depending upon circumstances. These two forces have many names including yes/no, positive/negative. yin/yang, affirm/deny etc. How we react to dualism determines our normal lives.

My understanding of the Source is the same as Plotinus’ description of the ONE which I began a thread on. The diverse interacting manifestations of Creation are the body of God. So you could call it monism except that the ONE isn’t in creation but rather creation function within the ISNESS of the Source. Rebirth or metanoia is made possible by the energy of the Holy Spirit so is divine action.

Man contains the seed of a soul but it is the Holy Spirit that arouses it. Naturally a person who experiences rebirth will have a change of perspective. There is a danger here which is why esoteric Christianity is an oral teaching. A person who has begun to awaken can pervert the teaching and sin against the Holy Spirit which touches a person’s being at such a depth it cannot be forgiven.

The ONE IS. Creation EXISTS as a process within ISNESS. The Christ is our intermediary between God and Man. The Christ makes it possible for us to receive the help of the Spirit to make rebirth possible.

John 14 is difficult but for those who understand what is meant by the Christ being in the father and the Father being within the son and Man being within the Son, the fact that the Son attracts the Spirit makes perfect sense

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?..................


…………15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

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Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:46 pm Aw, I think you're being a bit hard on Nick, RC. People come from all sorts of places, and I don't mind talking with somebody who has views different from mine, whether on "religion" or on anti-"religion." In fact, it was in the hope of having those sorts of conversations I joined this discussion in the first place, so I appreciate the kind words and the cautionary note, but I'm not really concerned.
It was the views being expressed I was criticizing, not the individual expressing those views, which just happened to be Nick.

If you are truly interested in religious discussion, I have a question for you. Do humans do what they know is wrong because they are tempted by something in their nature, or because their choices are based on bad reasoning? I'm not trying to force a false dichotomy here, and you may attribute human wrong-doing to something else.

I know what most Bible-believing Christians believe in this matter and am curious about your own view.
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

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Nick_A wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:53 pm The diverse interacting manifestations of Creation are the body of God.
Yeah, RC is right...that isn't Christianity.
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

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RCSaunders wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:21 am Do humans do what they know is wrong because they are tempted by something in their nature, or because their choices are based on bad reasoning? I'm not trying to force a false dichotomy here, and you may attribute human wrong-doing to something else.
Good point. It's not an either-or.

Bad reasoning can lead to bad actions. That's true; I can think my reasons are good, but there are things I don't know, or things I forget to take into account, or I weight things wrongly, or I become illogical in my attempts to reason. Any of those can lead me to do the wrong thing.

But stop the presses: if there is nothing in human beings that is attracted to a bad choice, then the bad choice doesn't happen. Human wrongdoing is a product of human wrong-wanting. In fact, if human beings didn't often want wrong things, we'd have no subjects like ethics or morals, because these things have to do with what the right thing to do is when you feel incentivized to do something wrong. If we were always inclined to do the right thing, then we would never need ethics...we would just always do right, and we wouldn't say "That was moral," just "That's what we did." So the inclination to do wrong is also in humans. That's also clear.

The answer to both is "yes."
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

Post by Nick_A »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:12 am
Nick_A wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:53 pm The diverse interacting manifestations of Creation are the body of God.
Yeah, RC is right...that isn't Christianity.
So then what is Christianity? What is its meaning and purpose?
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

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Nick_A wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:34 am So then what is Christianity? What is its meaning and purpose?
Well, one primary difference between a sort of mystic monism and Christianity is that God is not the same as His Creation. In Hinduism or Buddhism, for example, reality is maya, illusion; and through attachment to reality we are kept from being enlightened to the divine unity of all things. All things are thought to be in, and of, the god -- including human beings, who are (unbeknownst to themselves because of maya) divine.

Christianity does teach us not to become too attached to worldly things, not because they are maya but because they are contingent, transitory, created and faulty. Yet they're real. And we are not "little gods," or even "little parts of the god," but rather "made in the image of God," as a separate creation. We are ourselves, not shards of divinity; and we are valuable as ourselves, not for being immersible in the ocean of cosmic oneness or as eliminable into non-existence. We matter. The world matters. But we matter differently, and for other reasons, than any mystical tradition holds. The spiritual and the material are two interrelated realms, but the material, created world is not simply an illusion or a misconceived version of the spiritual.

Another difference is that in Christianity, metanoia is the concept, not "enlightenment." Metanoia is not possible to human beings without the new birth first: "...unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God," says Jesus, in John 3. It's neither a case like Plato's cave, in which an ordinary person brings another ordinary person "into the light" by ordinary means, nor like Eastern mysticisms, in which (through meditation, esoteric knowledge or disciplines) an individual simply has to become aware of the illusory nature of being. Instead, the Christian continues to see reality as reality, but does not estimate it in the same way or address it with the same values, because he has been born again "from above."

In Christianity, reality is real -- and it's an important place, because it's the primary location of obedience to God. The world is under human stewardship; but not for exploitation. Man is accountable to God for what he does with it and in it. In addressing reality, man addresses the question, "How now will you live, with what you now know?" Were this worldly realm mere illusion, then, the locus of man developing his relationship with God voluntarily would be gone, replaced with a self-satisfied sense that he had "seen through it all," and thus was superior not only to other human beings, but cognitively independent of God -- for in that case, man did, after all, enlighten himself.

In metanoia, it's this self-deception of independence from God that must be given up. Man must change his mind about his own moral status and admit his own cognitive blindness to the real meaning of things. He must, so to speak, "Become as a little child" by starting again to relearn true values and the right disposition to his role in creation. He isn't suddenly ushered into some privileged "illuminati," some company of the super-smart, but rather humbled into a new starting point, in which, for the first time, he realizes how foolish he has been and how much he has been rescued from the squalling demands of his bloated ego. He becomes "servant of all," and starts from the bottom; and his progress from there has more to do with learning just how wrong he has been, rather than congratulating himself on just how right he is.

At least, that's how the process goes when he cooperates with it. When he forgets, he lapses into old habits and makes mistakes that may well not be a credit to the new nature; because he still has his old nature, along with the new. This, too, humbles him and renews his grateful for God's forgiveness. He is reminded that he is forgiven, not transcendent or enlightened or perfect.

There is much more, of course. But these are significant conceptual differences between mystical or gnostic enlightenment and Christianity. As you can see, they have different assumptions about the world, and different assumptions about the mechanism, meaning and nature of salvation. The similarities, such as there are, are superficial; the differences are profound.
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

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Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:04 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:56 pm Nope he did not.
Katyn. Kulaks.

Yes, yes, he did.
No
It was Percy Bysshe Shelley you ignorant ****.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

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Sculptor wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:30 pm It was Percy Bysshe Shelley...
Oh. You mean we were playing, "Who wrote the poem," not "Is the last line noble or just plain sinister?" :wink:
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

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I C
Well, one primary difference between a sort of mystic monism and Christianity is that God is not the same as His Creation.
Agreed. If the universe is the body of God serving the cyclical process of existence it cannot be God that IS. God cannot be creation. Creation takes place within NOW or what IS.
Christianity does teach us not to become too attached to worldly things, not because they are maya but because they are contingent, transitory, created and faulty. Yet they're real.


Christianity doesn’t deny the reality of cycles like dust to dust. Consider Plato’s observation from the Timaeus. So as I see it, the universe exists as cycles but is always in the process of change so doesn’t really exist. Is this possible?
“What is that which always is and has no becoming, and what is that which becomes but never is” (Tim. 28a)? Lets notice at the start that Plato’s question presupposes that “that which always is” must be devoid of any “becoming” — which means, “that which truly is” can’t come into being, can’t change in any respect, and can’t perish. His question also presupposes that “that which becomes” never truly “is.” So, things that come into being, change and eventually perish never really exist.
Another difference is that in Christianity, metanoia is the concept, not "enlightenment."Metanoia is not possible to human beings without the new birth first: "...unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God," says Jesus, in John 3.
We agree that metanoia is not the same as rebirth. Can a person experience being born again without first experiencing metanoia? It happens. Can metanoia invite the Spirit and lead to the reconciliation of metanoia? Without this potential a teaching is futile
In Christianity, reality is real -- and it's an important place, because it's the primary location of obedience to God. The world is under human stewardship; but not for exploitation. Man is accountable to God for what he does with it and in it. In addressing reality, man addresses the question, "How now will you live, with what you now know?" Were this worldly realm mere illusion, then, the locus of man developing his relationship with God voluntarily would be gone, replaced with a self-satisfied sense that he had "seen through it all," and thus was superior not only to other human beings, but cognitively independent of God -- for in that case, man did, after all, enlighten himself.
Reality may be real but we are not.

John 10
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
The Father and the Christ are ONE only differing in scale. The Son is in the Father. Man on earth is not ONE. Man lacks inner unity so exists as a plurality with the potential for inner unity, to be ONE. Man’s name is legion. The goal of Christianity IMO is to become ONE (inner unity) as a higher quality of being
In metanoia, it's this self-deception of independence from God that must be given up. Man must change his mind about his own moral status and admit his own cognitive blindness to the real meaning of things.
But how can we give it up? Jesus said we have to carry our own cross. We have to consciously witness what we are rather than react to it with blind denial and lies. This invites change. When we see that we are helpless and cry for help from the depths of our being, the Holy Spirit brings it through the experience of rebirth.
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

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Nick_A wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:43 pm If the universe is the body of God serving the cyclical process of existence...
This is Eastern Mysticism, or some other "eternal universe" view like it. It's not Christianity.

The Christian timeline is linear, not cyclical. Moreover, as I said earlier, the universe is not "the body of God." God and the universe are distinct, in Christianity: the former is necessary and eternal, and the latter is contingent and created by the former.
Christianity doesn’t deny the reality of cycles like dust to dust.
That's not a cycle. Dust-to-person-to-dust-to-person... ad infinitum would be a cycle. The Bible says, "It's appointed to men once to die, and after this comes judgment." There is no Christian reincarnation. We only get one life.
Consider Plato’s observation from the Timaeus. So as I see it, the universe exists as cycles but is always in the process of change so doesn’t really exist. Is this possible?
It's not possible within a Christian (or within a scientific, for that matter) worldview. The universe itself is linear and subject to decay. It's not eternal.
Another difference is that in Christianity, metanoia is the concept, not "enlightenment."Metanoia is not possible to human beings without the new birth first: "...unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God," says Jesus, in John 3.
We agree that metanoia is not the same as rebirth.
Hmmm...not quite what I said, though.
Can a person experience being born again without first experiencing metanoia? It happens.
Not in Christian thought. Metanoia and being born again are interlocked parts of salvation.
Can metanoia invite the Spirit and lead to the reconciliation of metanoia? Without this potential a teaching is futile
You've got "metanoia" as both the initiator and result there. That's not a logical sequence: it's circular. Essentially, you've got metanoia creating metanoia, which is as logically absurd as saying, "This man is his own father." That can't be right.
Reality may be real but we are not.
In Christianity, human beings are very real.
Man’s name is legion.
No, that's the name of a cluster of demons. In the Bible, it's never a name given to men.
In metanoia, it's this self-deception of independence from God that must be given up. Man must change his mind about his own moral status and admit his own cognitive blindness to the real meaning of things.
But how can we give it up?
By the death to self.

Instead of thinking we are good enough to please God by our own goodness, or that we can enlighten our own selves and secure our own salvation, we give up and embrace the salvation in Christ. We admit that we are wrong, and confess God as right. We stop trusting in ourselves, and put our trust in God instead. We say, I am not right; but God is.

That is a "death to self." It hurts. It shows us our own hearts, wicked as they often are. It shames us. It makes us despair of our own efforts. It makes us give up. It makes us cry out.

But only when we've come to the end of our confidence in our own potential goodness can we fully embrace the necessity of God's goodness provided on our behalf. So that "death" has got to happen. There is no other way.
Jesus said we have to carry our own cross.
Well, note though, that he said this not to men in general, but concerning those disciples who chose to follow him. It's a statement not about salvation, but about the terms of service afterward. Men who are not born again do not have a "cross" to bear. They do not following in the footsteps of the One who carried His cross before them. But those who have chosen Christ do "bear" the sufferings that new association brings...with a view to a better future.
We have to consciously witness what we are rather than react to it with blind denial and lies.
Yes.
This invites change.
We cannot change. Leopards do not change their spots. Human beings do not change human nature either. And that is why...
When we see that we are helpless and cry for help from the depths of our being, the Holy Spirit brings it through the experience of rebirth.
Now, that part is quite correct.
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

Post by RCSaunders »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:23 am If we were always inclined to do the right thing, then we would never need ethics...we would just always do right, and we wouldn't say "That was moral," just "That's what we did." So the inclination to do wrong is also in humans. That's also clear
Hi IC,
(Do you mind if I use that? I don't mean integrated circuit, I mean Immanuel Can.)

(I like the irony of the name, Kant certainly couldn't.)

I think it is a mistake to say human beings have an, "inclination," toward anything, especially if it is an "inclination to do wrong" based on the fact the human beings do wrong, unless you are going to say human being have an "inclination to do good" base on the fact the human beings do good. (If you are a radical Calvinist, of course, you will not agree human beings do anything good.)

What I was really interested in is your view regarding the Christian doctrine of "original sin" or "depravity," that is, that human beings are born with a, "sinful nature," that makes it impossible to live without doing wrong based on such verses as, "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God," or, "there is none righteous, no not one." [I'm quoting from memory, KJV version, but will be happy to supply references if you like.] [I'm only referring to the sinful nature, here, not how it was acquired, e.g., the sin of Adam.]

I know that conservative Christians believe the rebirth is necessary because people are born with a sinful nature, and salvation is only possible to those with, "reborn," with a new nature. So the real question is, do people do wrong (what the Bible calls sin) because that is the nature they are born with, and is it that nature (which Paul refers to as the flesh) which is the cause of temptation.

It is not a trick question and I'll tell you exactly why I ask it. The Bible (Hebrews) says, speaking of Christ, "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." If human temptation is the result of a sinful nature, and Jesus did not have a sinful nature (which virtually all Christians agree he didn't), he could not possibly be tempted, at least not in all points like all other human beings whose temptation is caused by their own nature.

If you care about the question, I'll be glad to explain where I think the mistake in Christian doctrine is on this point. Hint: it is a misinterpretation of Paul in Romans and a misunderstanding of the word, "lust," in the Bible.
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Re: Individualism vs. Collectivism

Post by Nick_A »

I C
The Christian timeline is linear, not cyclical. Moreover, as I said earlier, the universe is not "the body of God." God and the universe are distinct, in Christianity: the former is necessary and eternal, and the latter is contingent and created by the former.
The very thing which is now called the Christian religion existed among the ancients also, nor was it wanting from the inception of the human race until the coming if Christ in the flesh, at which point the true religion which was already in existence began to be called Christian. -ST. AUGUSTINE, Retractiones


You seem to have definite ideas concerning Christianity. But if Christianity is a perennial tradition as described by St. Augustine and it always was, how can you be so sure that your belief in linear time for example reflects the truth of Christianity?

My great great granduncle was an archbishop in the Armenian Church. He was a member of the highly regarded Mekhitarist Congregation in Vienna. He also was friendly with Helena Blavataky the founder of Theosophy. They must have had many interesting discussions concerning Christianity including some you would disagree with. How would you know that your disagreements were justified?

Modern Christianity believes in a ready made soul. Buddhism believes in no soul. Meister Eckhart wrote of the seed of the soul:
The seed of God is in us. Given an intelligent and hard-working farmer, it will thrive and grow up to God, whose seed it is; and accordingly its fruits will be God-nature. Pear seeds grow into pear trees, nut seeds into nut trees, and God-seed into God. Meister Eckhart
Perhaps there is too much believing and not enough contemplation especially if Christianity is a perennial tradition.
“The mysteries of faith are degraded if they are made into an object of affirmation and negation, when in reality they should be an object of contemplation.” Simone Weil
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