Democracy in Flux

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RWStanding
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:23 pm

Democracy in Flux

Post by RWStanding » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:25 am

Democracy: Until recently democracy in this country has been on the basis of representative government and not delegates, and not opinion polls. This has at least placed legislation in the hands of people who are probably concerned with social stability and play of opinion in parliament. There is now a growing use of polls or referenda to resolve stalemates in parliament. There is the probability of a referendum in N.I. to resolve the question of abortion. This country therefore appears to be in a state of flux regarding the nature of democracy and how practically to manage it. This is a fundamental issue and it is very risky to leave its resolution to random change.
Assuming the validity of there being three directions of travel for society and one of these as increasing authoritarianism. The latter is not what is normally assumed as democracy with its root in demos. At the very least democracy should relate to the indeterminate value of freedom, but with this only realized as a form of society by the way that simple value is qualified by other values. [Not to mention various other sets of values] It can either be a corporate freedom within ‘altruist’ society. Or it may be a purely individualistic freedom of self-interest within a very minimalist society. The greatest folly would no doubt be simply making democracy a populist opinion poll that may be hijacked by any passing demagogue [Trump?] or even worse such a person as Hitler. The end result of that being a populace in happy servitude.
The way our present rather intermediate form of democracy works, the Irish question is likely to be resolved by parliament deciding on what it will put in the poll as a form of legislation regarding abortion, and merely asking for it to be agreed in the poll.
But all this pragmatism hides the underlying ethical question of abortion and the value of life. It should be clear that if we have a population that leans in three directions, it will influence how they vote. Some people will not give a hoot and will vote to get the matter settled. Others will be controlled by their religion and vote in the way they are instructed by it. Some more will be influenced by the values they see in their religion or philosophy. Others will believe in the right of individuals to act for themselves. Many will see the foetus as a growing person with commensurate rights. Others see the mother as having right over her own body in all its content. Some will assert the rights of both parents. And of course the term religion can hide the fact that it and the state may have the same voice.
Assuming the three forms or directions of society. It would be foolish for a ‘democracy’ not to decide whether it is after all quite authoritarian, or it is in some degree altruistic, or it is in favour of more anarchistic self-interest.
There is no great doubt about the ethic of altruism in this case, at least in approximation.

Scott Mayers
Posts: 1404
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:53 am
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada

Re: Democracy in Flux

Post by Scott Mayers » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:27 am

Before interpreting, what is your country? ...and what is N.I.?

jayjacobus
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: Democracy in Flux

Post by jayjacobus » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:29 pm

RWStanding wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:25 am
Democracy: Until recently democracy in this country has been on the basis of representative government and not delegates, and not opinion polls. This has at least placed legislation in the hands of people who are probably concerned with social stability and play of opinion in parliament. There is now a growing use of polls or referenda to resolve stalemates in parliament. There is the probability of a referendum in N.I. to resolve the question of abortion. This country therefore appears to be in a state of flux regarding the nature of democracy and how practically to manage it. This is a fundamental issue and it is very risky to leave its resolution to random change.
Assuming the validity of there being three directions of travel for society and one of these as increasing authoritarianism. The latter is not what is normally assumed as democracy with its root in demos. At the very least democracy should relate to the indeterminate value of freedom, but with this only realized as a form of society by the way that simple value is qualified by other values. [Not to mention various other sets of values] It can either be a corporate freedom within ‘altruist’ society. Or it may be a purely individualistic freedom of self-interest within a very minimalist society. The greatest folly would no doubt be simply making democracy a populist opinion poll that may be hijacked by any passing demagogue [Trump?] or even worse such a person as Hitler. The end result of that being a populace in happy servitude.
The way our present rather intermediate form of democracy works, the Irish question is likely to be resolved by parliament deciding on what it will put in the poll as a form of legislation regarding abortion, and merely asking for it to be agreed in the poll.
But all this pragmatism hides the underlying ethical question of abortion and the value of life. It should be clear that if we have a population that leans in three directions, it will influence how they vote. Some people will not give a hoot and will vote to get the matter settled. Others will be controlled by their religion and vote in the way they are instructed by it. Some more will be influenced by the values they see in their religion or philosophy. Others will believe in the right of individuals to act for themselves. Many will see the foetus as a growing person with commensurate rights. Others see the mother as having right over her own body in all its content. Some will assert the rights of both parents. And of course the term religion can hide the fact that it and the state may have the same voice.
Assuming the three forms or directions of society. It would be foolish for a ‘democracy’ not to decide whether it is after all quite authoritarian, or it is in some degree altruistic, or it is in favour of more anarchistic self-interest.
There is no great doubt about the ethic of altruism in this case, at least in approximation.
Well said. But observe we are led by masters with thousands of servants at their beck and call. Leaders have followers. So, where are they?

FlashDangerpants
Posts: 1761
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: Democracy in Flux

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:33 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:27 am
Before interpreting, what is your country? ...and what is N.I.?
He's British - most of what he posts is various references to the internal controversies within a specific UK political party (Labour).
N.I. is Northern Ireland.

There is little point asking him questions, he just drops his latest banal little turd of wisdom and fucks off without caring. The purpose of what he does here is little more than to feel like a writer, or worse, an "and philosopher". Our sympathies should go out to whatever local meetings of the Labour party he is rehearsing these dull little speeches for.

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