Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:35 am

PeteJ wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:47 pm
It can be spoken about and we're doing it now. The motive would usually be to help others bring an end to suffering. Of course, most also need to earn some sort of living. When you hear a great piece of music are you not tempted to share it?
I don't agree it can be spoken about, it can't be shared like a piece of music at all. Tacit knowing simply cannot be shared with another.
Music can be shared because we're all hearing the same tune..but nondual understanding cannot be heard externally, it's a silent inside hearing.

Maybe it can be described using the only tool available,(words) but it can never be given to you from an external agent. So it cannot be taught in the way a teacher would have you believe. You do not have to learn to be Enlightened. Reality is already Enlightened, that's the whole realisation in the first place, that there is no person who becomes Enlightened, there is only here Enlightenment. There is no such thing as a fallen man or woman, who has to crawl around on it's belly until it reunites with the GodHead. That is just a story written by the holy men who would have you believe otherwise, but the whole story that you are detached from God is nothing more than a depraved Bu$ine$$ Scam.

This is ALL GOD right here and now, the good the bad and the ugly, the sleepers and the awakened ones is ALL GOD ....no person can tell another they haven't found God YET. You don't need external things to prove who you are.True Nondual understanding is maintaining our identity not from what others say but by being ourselves rather than trying to be like others or pretending to be what we are not.So, those who know do not need to speak to show that they know. That's all I'm saying.
Those who know the Tao do not brag.

Those who brag do not know the Tao.
Those who know cannot show other what they know, they have to SHUT UP to the idea they have got some knowledge to give to you, because they assume you don't have it yet. That mentality is absurd. It's better to say, I cannot give you anything that you don't already have yourself, or can give yourself.

Nondual understanding is completely silent within the sense of being. Thinking one can share that understanding which is beyond language would be like tring to share with your partner what it feels like to be in love. That partner could not possibly know what it feels like from the perspective of the other one what the feeling of being in love feels like..and this is how I see nondual understanding works too. You cannot share with another what it feels like to be in love and expect that other to know what feeling in love is like, it just doesn't work like that as we see many times when couples think they are in love with each other, they think they know what love is ..then two months or so down the line they can't stand the sight of each other...the point is the dynamic of LOVE is much more complex than just saying those 3 little words I LOVE YOU. The point is, no one can love you, and you cannot love another...that's separation. Nondual understanding is the same principle. No one can teach you to be what you already are.

When teachers tell their followers that they are not Enlightened yet, or that they cannot possibly see God until they do such and such, like getting to know a nondual teacher, or having to meditate for hours on end, or attending spiritual retreats listening to endless satangs, or doing this practice or that practice like shoving psychedelic drug or any other psychedelic drug up their arse.
I just think it is a depraved mentality telling other people they are not Enlightened YET just because they haven't followed a particular practice whatever that maybe according to the teacher. Not all teachers are like that, but some are.

Those who know the Tao do not brag.

Those who brag do not know the Tao.
Don't brag about this to others telling them they will not see GOD until they do drugs. While drugs may or may not take you to other mansions, you haven't actually gone anywhere, you've had a pleasurable trip without actually going anywhere...it's all still the same here now nowhere the same as it ever was. God is God, there is only God doing what God does, there is no other God, it's all God...it's even God pulling the bu$ine$$ scam with itself. Yes, God can appear to be in Drag, pulling off the charm of being multiple characters, good or bad.

Telling others I have seen God because I have shoved psychedelic drugs up my arse, and until you shove these drugs up your arse you will not see God is crazy talk. This is just more selfish self-serving addiction, it's not a teaching, it's being addicted to pleasure and then addicted to the pleasure of telling others the WAY to God is through my way or the highway..and then of course there's the pleasure of money made in the process of selling water by the river, of off the backs of lowly innocent pious gullible disciples.

Also making a living by trying to teach someone else what is beyond any hope of being applied in all practical purposes to another person thinking they too will know what they know is the work of a con artist. When often the other person is totally oblivious to the teaching in the sense it has not been their own direct experience, nor will it ever be put there by another...So this is not a job or a way of making a living in my opinion...unlike most other jobs that can be shown to be done and applied accordingly as taught....So it is a dishonest way to make a living. Write about the profound experiences of nondual understanding yes, distribute the knowledge all over the internet for free, or even sit on a park bench and talk about it all day long to all who pass by .. that's ok I suppose, but don't try and make a living out of something that cannot be shown or applied.

To tell another person that they know but you don't so I'm going to tell you what I know so that you too know .. is just plain absurd...truth is, no one knows what another person knows and is why some teachers are just simply ignorant, arrogant and condecending idiots.

Take children for example, a typical case of what Enlightenment really stands for is seen in a child at play...that until their society deforms and poisons them beyond all hope and recognition. ..so to be like that of a child again is to enter the kingdom of heaven which is always right here now where it's always present.

.

surreptitious57
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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:57 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Write about the profound experiences of nondual understanding yes distribute the knowledge all over the internet for free
or even sit on a park bench and talk about it all day long to all who pass by ... that is ok I suppose but dont try and make a
living out of something that cannot be shown or applied
I dont know how true that is but I like it as a principle

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by Dontaskme » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:51 am

Age wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:09 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:36 am
As philosophers we've probably all heard of the phrase '' The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao'' OR ''The Way that can be spoken of is not the constant Way''

So why DO all these Non-dual teachers and preachers of today and yesterday attempt to speak it to others..?
Because they are false tales.

Just because some thing has not yet been formulated into words does not mean that it can not be told nor can be spoken of.

Finding the right words/language just takes some time.

In the meantime people will try/attempt to speak with the words/knowledge that they currently possess.
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:36 am
Is there any authority here in reality that can confidently claim to have metaphysical knowledge and to speak of such knowledge to others as if it was absolute truth that CAN actually be KNOWN?
Yes there is an actual authority that can do this, but this also depends on exactly what the word 'metaphysical' is being defined as here.
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:36 am
Or is it all just some human scam operating as a con to con others into moving away from their own belief structures by announcing there is no such thing as belief structures while at the same time selling their own belief to you...kind of like replacing one illusion with another.
Do you have any examples of this happening?

With examples, then we can look at them and discuss.
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:36 am
What are the motives or incentives of teachers / preachers who speak about the nondual nature of existence to others?
Because there is A Truth within all, which wants to come out/be heard, but unfortunately IT gets distorted along the way, through all the false beliefs and assumptions, which the speaker/teacher/preacher is holding onto.
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:36 am
when it clearly cannot be spoken about.
Where is this belief that "it clearly cannot be spoken about" come from?
Dontaskme wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:36 am
Any thoughts about that?
Yes, find out if things are actual facts before believing and/or expressing as though they are.
First of all, it is wise to only answer your own questions especially if you are looking for a reliable source as to finding a true answer to your own question, an answer that will make sense to you.
It's not about if Nondual understanding can be told or cannot be told, it's not about the limitation of language, it's about with what attitude you speak to others without the urge to feel more superior about a subject that is only directly experiencial to you anyway.

Only True humility benefits others, it's good for everyone without harming them or without competing with them for anything. Telling people that unless they get high by altering what is usually 99% the normal everyday state of consciousness .. and then announcing that is the only way they can see and know God by deliberately inducing a higher state of consciousness until they are so far out of their ordinary mind, and that this is the only way to see and know God is just plain disrepectful.

As Shakespeare so elequently put it “The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool”

And there are many more phrases through philosophy to the same effect. Sometimes teachers suffer from illusory superiority, illusions of grandeur so to speak, they mistakenly assess their own cognitive ability to be greater than it is.

As in the Dunning–Kruger effect ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E ... ger_effect

It's the sickeness of the human mind. In reality, in true Nondual understanding there is no one here to know anything anyway..and that everything is already known, but not by I because that which is KNOWN does not know anything.

By saying you KNOW the truth, YOU are actually altering it, never quite catching up to the actual WAY of IT.
By assuming you know You Dam up the natural flow which is without control. Reality cannot be freeze framed. All ''thought'' is frozen energy.

.

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by surreptitious57 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:21 am

Dontaskme wrote:
By saying you KNOW the truth YOU are actually altering it never quite catching up to the actual WAY of IT
By assuming you know You Dam up the natural flow which is without control . Reality cannot be freeze framed . All thought is frozen energy
Human beings cannot help but have thoughts but not being so certain of them could help here
But it is something each human being has to decide for themselves - no one can do it for them

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by PeteJ » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:08 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:21 am
Dontaskme wrote:
By saying you KNOW the truth YOU are actually altering it never quite catching up to the actual WAY of IT
By assuming you know You Dam up the natural flow which is without control . Reality cannot be freeze framed . All thought is frozen energy
Human beings cannot help but have thoughts but not being so certain of them could help here
Amen to that.

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:14 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:21 am

Human beings cannot help but have thoughts but not being so certain of them could help here
Your statement is only a half truth.

The other half of the truth is that no human being ever thought a thought in it's entire life.

Thoughts are in no body.

When is a human being not a human being?

Answers are: during the womb days, during the first two years of life, during night time sleep state, during anesthesia state, during death state, during psychedelic induced altered state of consciousness state, during an alcoholic induced stupor state, during intense sexual coupling with another person state, during a ride on a really high scary roller coaster state...these are just to name a few examples.

Notice when the sense of I am human aka ( separation ) is absent, in that there is no longer an association with any 'thought' ...there is still a non-absent non-state ''presence'' always here that remains throughout ever untouched, unharmed by any appearance aka state of being.

Thoughts are known by this non-absent presence...not by humans...human is a thought known, and what is known does not know anything.

.. if we are going to discuss metaphysics here...at least lets get our metaphysics right, lets understand absolutely what we are talking about here.
What use is just saying something without actually understanding what it is we are trying to say.

.

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by I Like Sushu » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:56 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:14 am
surreptitious57 wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:21 am

Human beings cannot help but have thoughts but not being so certain of them could help here
Your statement is only a half truth.

The other half of the truth is that no human being ever thought a thought in it's entire life.

Thoughts are in no body.

When is a human being not a human being?

Answers are: during the womb days, during the first two years of life, during night time sleep state, during anesthesia state, during death state, during psychedelic induced altered state of consciousness state, during an alcoholic induced stupor state, during intense sexual coupling with another person state, during a ride on a really high scary roller coaster state...these are just to name a few examples.

Notice when the sense of I am human aka ( separation ) is absent, in that there is no longer an association with any 'thought' ...there is still a non-absent non-state ''presence'' always here that remains throughout ever untouched, unharmed by any appearance aka state of being.

Thoughts are known by this non-absent presence...not by humans...human is a thought known, and what is known does not know anything.

.. if we are going to discuss metaphysics here...at least lets get our metaphysics right, lets understand absolutely what we are talking about here.
What use is just saying something without actually understanding what it is we are trying to say.

.
You wish to discuss metaphysics. Are you ‘teaching’ or discussing? Is there a difference?

Understanding what we say is very much a part of epistemology. If you wish to ‘understand’ you have a foot firmly planted in the ‘metaphysical world’. So I do have ‘knowledge of metaphysics’ does that count?

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:18 am

I Like Sushu wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:56 am

You wish to discuss metaphysics. Are you ‘teaching’ or discussing? Is there a difference?

Understanding what we say is very much a part of epistemology. If you wish to ‘understand’ you have a foot firmly planted in the ‘metaphysical world’. So I do have ‘knowledge of metaphysics’ does that count?
I'm not teaching.

There is no teacher separate from the student...knowledge belongs to no one and everyone.

No one has knowledge, they are knowledge.

And knowledge informs the illusory nature of reality, in that BEING is not a conceptual thing, but knows every conceptual thing, and that which is known..knows nothing.

This is auspicious seeing into the nature of reality, we all can know this because we are this.

No other one can teach you what you already know.

And lets be clear here, we are talking about the knower of the known...not what is known.

.

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by I Like Sushu » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:39 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:18 am
I Like Sushu wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:56 am

You wish to discuss metaphysics. Are you ‘teaching’ or discussing? Is there a difference?

Understanding what we say is very much a part of epistemology. If you wish to ‘understand’ you have a foot firmly planted in the ‘metaphysical world’. So I do have ‘knowledge of metaphysics’ does that count?
I'm not teaching.

There is no teacher separate from the student...knowledge belongs to no one and everyone.

No one has knowledge, they are knowledge.

And knowledge informs the illusory nature of reality, in that BEING is not a conceptual thing, but knows every conceptual thing, and that which is known..knows nothing.

This is auspicious seeing into the nature of reality, we all can know this because we are this.

No other one can teach you what you already know.

And lets be clear here, we are talking about the knower of the known...not what is known.

.
So you prefer mysticism to metaphysics. Maybe you’ll find someone to spar with here. Don’t get caught up in words is my only advice; and don’t misuse them readily without making it explicit enough for the reader or you’ll just incur their wrath/dismissal.

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:43 am

I Like Sushu wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:39 am
Dontaskme wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:18 am
I Like Sushu wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:56 am

You wish to discuss metaphysics. Are you ‘teaching’ or discussing? Is there a difference?

Understanding what we say is very much a part of epistemology. If you wish to ‘understand’ you have a foot firmly planted in the ‘metaphysical world’. So I do have ‘knowledge of metaphysics’ does that count?
I'm not teaching.

There is no teacher separate from the student...knowledge belongs to no one and everyone.

No one has knowledge, they are knowledge.

And knowledge informs the illusory nature of reality, in that BEING is not a conceptual thing, but knows every conceptual thing, and that which is known..knows nothing.

This is auspicious seeing into the nature of reality, we all can know this because we are this.

No other one can teach you what you already know.

And lets be clear here, we are talking about the knower of the known...not what is known.

.
So you prefer mysticism to metaphysics. Maybe you’ll find someone to spar with here. Don’t get caught up in words is my only advice; and don’t misuse them readily without making it explicit enough for the reader or you’ll just incur their wrath/dismissal.
I prefer the way of the Tao/Dao in the sense that...mysticism is metaphysics, same difference.

''Men like to control things and get what they want through manipulation; either using force or temptation. But Dao cannot be manipulated nor tempted. A person with the virtues of Dao will be like that, cannot be influenced by circumstance nor men. He retains his identity no matter what'' :D :wink:

The wrath I can take it all, it's a normal activity of a confused mind tripping over it's own trip..the confusion arises when the mind is identified with the object it knows as known that knows nothing. That's pretty confusing until clarity dawns.

Thanks for the free advice ..this is just free expression arising here, no teaching, no claim to know anything, no one being forced to read here, all come uninvited, no one is forced to understand anything or stay reading here, those that stay lets play...I'm sure the reader is intelligent enough to make up it's own mind about what is being expressed here and make it's own informed mind up about what it wants to hear or see.

.

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:50 am

Those who know speak not. Those who don't know talk a lot [as if they know].

Talking is just appearing straight out of the unknowing void, there is no one talking or knowing what they are talking about. .there's just a whole lot of noise no different to barking dog or a bird chirping.

She sings.

.

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by gaffo » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:53 am

PeteJ wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:47 pm


Some of your posts elsewhere make me wonder if your questions here are rhetorical. If they aren't I'm happy to discuss at any length the metaphysics of non-duality. It's my specialist hobby.
i'm not a hippy myself, but read your post.

what do you mean by "non-duality"

you mentioned this several times in your post, but in passing via your veiw of reality.

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:59 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Thanks for the free advice ... this is just free expression arising here no teaching no claim to know anything no one being forced to read here all come uninvited no one is forced to understand anything or stay reading here those that stay lets play ... I am sure the reader is intelligent enough to make up its own mind about what is being expressed here and make its own informed mind up about what it wants to hear or see
My thoughts exactly because I am not remotely interested in making other minds think like me
Minds think for themselves so the only mind one has control over is their own and no one elses

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by Skepdick » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:02 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:59 am
Minds think for themselves so the only mind one has control over is their own and no one elses
Isn't rhetoric one of the tenets of philosophy?

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Re: Is it ok to teach other people metaphysics?

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:15 am

Skepdick wrote:
Isnt rhetoric one of the tenets of philosophy ?
Not all rhetoric is philosophy but in any case I dont employ it or any other means to change any minds
Other minds can employ it to change my mind because there is no ego upon my part being used there

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