A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

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roydop
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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by roydop » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:10 pm

Can you stop your own mind? No you can't. The reason why you continue to argue is because you don't know who you really are. "Your name here" is an illusion propped up by your thinking, and if that thinking stops then you are lost. This is the reason why you can't ever actually reach a conclusion and will fight against anything that might stop your constant stream of thoughts. And this is the reason why no system of thought, especially philosophy, will ever actually produce an answer that will end the questions.

So I realize that a discussion with you will never reach a conclusion, until you actually delve into thought free Awareness. But that's tough to do, and it's much easier to just keep on that thought treadmill/illusion.

And you know how I know I'm "right"? I don't suffer. Yup, no problems. Happy all the time.

Sound impossible? As impossible as it is to stop thinking.

I'm just offering a way out of suffering. It's the mind that has created it (obviously all psychological suffering is thought) and it's the transcendence of mind that will end it.

FlashDangerpants
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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by FlashDangerpants » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:10 pm

roydop wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:10 pm
Can you stop your own mind? No you can't. The reason why you continue to argue is because you don't know who you really are. "Your name here" is an illusion propped up by your thinking, and if that thinking stops then you are lost. This is the reason why you can't ever actually reach a conclusion and will fight against anything that might stop your constant stream of thoughts. And this is the reason why no system of thought, especially philosophy, will ever actually produce an answer that will end the questions.

So I realize that a discussion with you will never reach a conclusion, until you actually delve into thought free Awareness. But that's tough to do, and it's much easier to just keep on that thought treadmill/illusion.

And you know how I know I'm "right"? I don't suffer. Yup, no problems. Happy all the time.

Sound impossible? As impossible as it is to stop thinking.

I'm just offering a way out of suffering. It's the mind that has created it (obviously all psychological suffering is thought) and it's the transcendence of mind that will end it.
Ugh, this whole thread is just a religious bait and switch move.
None of that specious shit addresses your logical failings.
You can continue to congratulate yourself for feeling special if that's all it takes to impress you though.

roydop
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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by roydop » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:19 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:10 pm
roydop wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:10 pm
Can you stop your own mind? No you can't. The reason why you continue to argue is because you don't know who you really are. "Your name here" is an illusion propped up by your thinking, and if that thinking stops then you are lost. This is the reason why you can't ever actually reach a conclusion and will fight against anything that might stop your constant stream of thoughts. And this is the reason why no system of thought, especially philosophy, will ever actually produce an answer that will end the questions.

So I realize that a discussion with you will never reach a conclusion, until you actually delve into thought free Awareness. But that's tough to do, and it's much easier to just keep on that thought treadmill/illusion.

And you know how I know I'm "right"? I don't suffer. Yup, no problems. Happy all the time.

Sound impossible? As impossible as it is to stop thinking.

I'm just offering a way out of suffering. It's the mind that has created it (obviously all psychological suffering is thought) and it's the transcendence of mind that will end it.
Ugh, this whole thread is just a religious bait and switch move.
None of that specious shit addresses your logical failings.
You can continue to congratulate yourself for feeling special if that's all it takes to impress you though.
First of all, my logic composes the biggest of perspectives which requires a wide perspective.

Also, your inability to recognize something so obvious and simple to me leads me to the conclusion that you just aren't ready to receive this information right now It has nothing to do with my logic failing (which it always does in the end anyway, right?


This response is further evidence of how messed up the state of humanity is. Happiness is no longer a natural state, but relegated to something religious? Really? It's that foreign.

I pefer happiness over being interested. Apparently you like it the other way around. I don't have a problem with that. Carry on. But hold on, it's gonna get rough. And really REALLY interesting. Not much peaceful though.

FlashDangerpants
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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by FlashDangerpants » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:12 pm

roydop wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:19 pm
First of all, my logic composes the biggest of perspectives which requires a wide perspective.
You can puff out your chest as much as you like, your argument is inadequate. It amounts to a hunch you have and an abiding disdain for anyone who doesn't think your hunches count as evidence of very much. That's never going to meet the minimum standard of logic.
roydop wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:19 pm
Also, your inability to recognize something so obvious and simple to me leads me to the conclusion that you just aren't ready to receive this information right now It has nothing to do with my logic failing (which it always does in the end anyway, right?
No, logic is a largely pretty simple matter when you aren't dealing with extreme abstract concepts and too many variables... if this thing is true, and if its truth entails that thing, then that thing is true as well. Simple shit that never lets you down if you just understand how it works.

Your argument doesn't have that, it lacks entailment, in fact it offers no demonstration of any particular relationship between the thing you cite as a cause without adequately narrowing down the scope of possible causes, and the effect which can't even demonstrate is true. These are not general problems that afflict well exercised logic, they afflict you for some other reason...
roydop wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:19 pm
This response is further evidence of how messed up the state of humanity is. Happiness is no longer a natural state, but relegated to something religious? Really? It's that foreign.
Yawn. You are a not that smart, not that interesting, and far from likeable person. I don't care what meditation regime helps you to feel superior to everyone else, it's value can't be all that great if you are the living advert for it.

You are simultaneously predicting a global holocaust and telling me how happy you always are anyway. Therefore I have assessed my options and arrived at a rational conclusion that I don't want to be like you at all. Other than the general being an obnoxious dick aspect of all this, I feel perfectly happy to match you in that regard.

roydop
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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by roydop » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:29 pm

I don't suffer.

I've spent thousands of hours in the thought free state, investigating mind and ego. Now objectively, you have to admit that unless you have also spent thousands of hours in thought free awareness, I may just have a better understanding/different perspective when I'm talking about thought free awareness. Right now I can bring up it's paramount importance but you have no frame of reference, as you haven't spent any time in thought free awareness. So you won't understand what I'm talking about until you actually begin investigating the thought free state. No finger pointing or judgement. That's just the way it is.

I'm trying to share with people how to also not suffer. Even through extinction.

Those who would also like to not suffer can follow my route.

FlashDangerpants
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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by FlashDangerpants » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:55 pm

roydop wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:29 pm
I've spent thousands of hours in the thought free state, investigating mind and ego. Now objectively, you have to admit that unless you have also spent thousands of hours in thought free awareness, I may just have a better understanding/different perspective when I'm talking about thought free awareness.
Sure, that isn't really a problem for me. You have spent a lot of time in a thought free state, some mean spirited people might even suggest you spent so may hours there you forgot how to fully emerge from it. I seldom imagine I know more about anyone's religious experiences than they do. I'm sure there is some way in which being both 'thought free' and 'aware' is not contradictory even though as a pairing of psychological verbs it doesn't make an awful lot of sense. I have no interest in that though.
roydop wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:29 pm
Right now I can bring up it's paramount importance but you have no frame of reference, as you haven't spent any time in thought free awareness. So you won't understand what I'm talking about until you actually begin investigating the thought free state. No finger pointing or judgement. That's just the way it is.
Sure, for you to exist in a state where you believe in imminent universal obliteration, and escape from that through breathing exercises is of paramount importance to you. However you wrote what you claim is a logical argument. I have many hours of experience in the field of logical argument that you quite obviously do not. Same rules apply, however, when the subject under discussion is whether or not an argument has been presented that is logically coherent, my experience is the relevant skill set. Yet you insist on arguing with me and show no grasp that you are understanding any of it.
roydop wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:29 pm
I'm trying to share with people how to also not suffer. Even through extinction.
And I am only interested in the logical qualities of what you presented as.... "A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR."
You can have your religious belief that this narrow focus makes me short sighted and wrong headed, maybe you are even right. But if you don't want to mount an actual logical defence of your argument, just admit it is logically insufficient and then we are done, you even get to think it over and try to come up with a better argument if you really are so attached to the conclusion you tried to reverse that shitshow into.

You have a curiously irritable attitude about that for somebody who never actually suffers. It seems like the benefits of not suffering aren't that great.

commonsense
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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by commonsense » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:04 pm

This has become a series of ad hominems. Is there no chance of getting back to the OP?

seeds
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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by seeds » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:22 pm

roydop wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:10 pm
The reason why you continue to argue is because you don't know who you really are. "Your name here" is an illusion propped up by your thinking, and if that thinking stops then you are lost. This is the reason why you can't ever actually reach a conclusion and will fight against anything that might stop your constant stream of thoughts. And this is the reason why no system of thought, especially philosophy, will ever actually produce an answer that will end the questions.
Well, according to the “philosophy” of idealism, the entire universe is a product of thought.

In other words, all experienceable phenomena are literally created from thought itself.

In which case, are you suggesting that in order for everyone to be happy, the divine source should cease any and all mental processes that result in the manifestation of anything that can be seen, touched, heard, smelled, or tasted?
_______

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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by -1- » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:05 am

roydop wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:23 pm
1. The actions of the human species has put into motion a mass extinction event on the earth. This behavior more closely resembles the actions of a cancer than of a mammal.

2. The human species is a cancer.

3. The most obvious difference between humans and all other life is our use of thought and our internal dialogue.

4. Therefore Occam's razor indicates that thought is the cause of humanity's unnatural behavior.

Being that this explanation is the simplest and most obvious, as well as being logically consistent, it must be adopted as the accepted theory as to the cause of said unnatural behavior.
I agree that man's behaviour is due to his ability to think and plan. But man's behaviour is not unnatural. He just perfected survival to such degree, that all his natural enemies fell to the wayside, and man divides and multiplies, to the detriment of other species.

But it's not unnatural. Other species would do it too, if they were capable of it. But they ain't.

Occam's razor is a phenomenon, not a natural law. In other words, Occam's razor works and it is applicable only to those situations where it works and is applicable, but it does not always work and it is not always applicable. In other words, invoking Occam's razor does not have proof value.

A short explanation of the fault of relying on Occam's razor as a true proof:

What makes people eat? Scientist: he can describe 27 different enzymes that cause hunger-reaction in certain areas of the brain.

What makes people eat? Christian: God makes man eat.

What drives a steam locomotive? Scientist: Heat makes gas expand, and expanding gas exerts pressure which is made to power an intricate enough structure that runs on rails.

What makes a locomotive move? Christian: God makes a locomotive move, because God is the thing that makes everything happen.

You see, in this example, the failure of Occam's Razor? the simplest explanation to every event and observation in the universe is that "God makes it happen". That's simple, and it applies to all situation. You can't explain even one single solitary law in physics, chemistry or biology with four words, and always with the same four words. Christian faith can, but it's obviously inferior to scientific explanations how and why things happen.

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henry quirk
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I like mine better.

Post by henry quirk » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:01 am

1. Human action often results in radically altered environments. This is normal and natural for an intelligent, curious, aggressive, robustly reproducing, species.

2. Humans are an intelligent, curious, aggressive, robustly reproducing, species.

3. The most obvious difference between humans and most other life is 'selfness' (the 'I'), a singular evolutionary triumph (the direct result of intelligence, curiosity, aggression, and robust reproductive capacity).

4. Therefore common sense indicates the elements that conspired to give rise to the 'I' are the foundation of humanity's rise from lemur-things to Kings of the Friggin' Hill.

vive la difference

roydop
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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by roydop » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:25 am

Those who don't think the human species is exhibiting destructive, cancerous behavior won't agree with this. I'm not going to try to convince you how fucked up the species really is, other than this:

I propose that everyone reading this simply sit still in a quiet room for one hour without thinking. Just sit there and don't do anything and don't think of anything.

Actually do it. Just don't think.

What is the purpose of all those thoughts? How much control do you have of your own mind? Now think about the fact that pretty much all of humanity has the same uncontrolled mind.

Everyone has the same disease but because everyone has it it seems normal. It's not and we're going to kill everything on the planet because of our sickness.

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henry quirk
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Mine is better.

Post by henry quirk » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:40 am

Those who think the human species is exhibiting destructive, cancerous behavior won't agree with this. I'm not going to try to convince you how glorious the species really is, other than this:

I propose everyone reading this simply sit still in a quiet room for one hour thinking without the distractions of tv, radio or other folk. Just sit there and don't do anything except think.

Actually do it. Think.

What is the purpose of undistracted thinking? You found You had enormous control over your own mind, yeah? Now think about the fact that pretty much all of humanity have self=controlled minds.

Everyone has the same capacity for self-direction and self-directed thought and everyone has it cuz it's normal and natural. We're going to remain Kings of the Friggin' Hill (and become Kings of other Hills too) because of this capacity.

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Greta
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Re: A LOGICAL ARGUMENT FOR THE CAUSE OF HUMANITY'S UNNATURAL BEHAVIOR.

Post by Greta » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:56 am

commonsense wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:04 pm
This has become a series of ad hominems. Is there no chance of getting back to the OP?
You don't get a reply that way, CS.

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Greta
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Re: Mine is better.

Post by Greta » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:13 am

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:40 am
I'm not going to try to convince you how glorious the species really is—
All species are glorious, including us!

Image

Image

Image

Image

But some are gloriouser than others :)

Image

roydop
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Re: Mine is better.

Post by roydop » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:14 am

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:40 am
Those who think the human species is exhibiting destructive, cancerous behavior won't agree with this. I'm not going to try to convince you how glorious the species really is, other than this:

I propose everyone reading this simply sit still in a quiet room for one hour thinking without the distractions of tv, radio or other folk. Just sit there and don't do anything except think.

Actually do it. Think.

What is the purpose of undistracted thinking? You found You had enormous control over your own mind, yeah? Now think about the fact that pretty much all of humanity have self=controlled minds.

Everyone has the same capacity for self-direction and self-directed thought and everyone has it cuz it's normal and natural. We're going to remain Kings of the Friggin' Hill (and become Kings of other Hills too) because of this capacity.
So did you do it? Did you sit in a chair for an hour without thinking?

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