Self-awareness

For all things philosophical.

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Logik
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Logik » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 am

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:58 am
I already KNOW THE answer to the question Who am 'I'?
Awesome! Pretend for 10 seconds that it is you asking yourself "Who am I?"

When I ask myself the question "Who am I?" I answer to myself "I am me".
When other people ask me the question "Who are you?" I answer to them "I am Logik."

What do you answer to yourself, and to others?
Last edited by Logik on Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

Logik
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Logik » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:06 am

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:01 am
Yes I can.

Which definition would you like?
The True and Correct one.

Age
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:26 am

Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 am
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:58 am
I already KNOW THE answer to the question Who am 'I'?
Awesome! Pretend for 10 seconds that it is you asking yourself "Who am I?"
Did you read what I wrote in regards to what the answer is to the question Who am 'I'?

If yes, then what did you get from that?
If no, then i suggest if you want to know, then read that.
Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 am
When I ask myself the question "Who am I?" I answer to myself "I am me".
Who cares what you tell you?

After all, with the amount of times you use a coin to obtain answers, you might have used a coin to obtain that answer also.
Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 am
When other people ask me the question "Who are you?" I answer to them "I am Logik."
Wow.
Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:05 am
What do you answer to yourself, and to others?
It would depend on the question, OBVIOUSLY.

Logik
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Logik » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:27 am

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:26 am
It would depend on the question, OBVIOUSLY.
You already know the question AND the answer. That's what you said.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:58 am
I already KNOW THE answer to the question Who am 'I'?
Now tell us the answer.

Age
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 am

Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:06 am
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:01 am
Yes I can.

Which definition would you like?
The True and Correct one.
After all our to and fro, back and forth discussing, you still have NOT understood what I have been saying.

You can take that as being ALL MY FAULT COMPLETELY.

I do NOT know how to communicate with "logik".

Age
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:31 am

Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:27 am
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:26 am
It would depend on the question, OBVIOUSLY.
You already know the question AND the answer. That's what you said.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:58 am
I already KNOW THE answer to the question Who am 'I'?
Now tell us the answer.
You obviously did NOT read the answer I gave BEFORE.

Logik
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Logik » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:33 am

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 am
After all our to and fro, back and forth discussing, you still have NOT understood what I have been saying.

You can take that as being ALL MY FAULT COMPLETELY.

I do NOT know how to communicate with "logik".
I am sorry. I cannot accept this answer.

According to Aumann's agreement theorem two rational agents can always agree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aumann%27 ... nt_theorem

I am rational, so unless you find a way to agree with me we might have to conclude that you are irrational.
Last edited by Logik on Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

Logik
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Logik » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:33 am

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:31 am
You obviously did NOT read the answer I gave BEFORE.
Is that that the answer to the question "Who am I?".

This doesn't make ANY sense!

Age
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:42 am

Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:33 am
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:30 am
After all our to and fro, back and forth discussing, you still have NOT understood what I have been saying.

You can take that as being ALL MY FAULT COMPLETELY.

I do NOT know how to communicate with "logik".
I am sorry. I cannot accept this answer.

According to Aumann's agreement theorem two rational agents can always agree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aumann%27 ... nt_theorem
So would that mean ALL rational agents can always agree, ALSO?
Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:33 am
I am rational, so unless you find a way to agree with me we might have to conclude that you are irrational.
But you have concluded that I am irrational already. Relatively speaking, a fair while ago ALSO, am I correct?

So, whoever the 'we' is that you are referring to, 'we' might have to, or already have, concluded that I am irrational.

Age
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 am

Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:33 am
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:31 am
You obviously did NOT read the answer I gave BEFORE.
Is that that the answer to the question "Who am I?".

This doesn't make ANY sense!
Why NOT?

Logik
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Logik » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:46 am

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:42 am
But you have concluded that I am irrational already.
I have done no such thing! I have concluded that I am rational. That does not mean that you are irrational.

The falsifiable hypothesis is that you are irrational.
You could falsify this hypothesis and prove rationality by finding a way to agree.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:42 am
So, whoever the 'we' is that you are referring to, 'we' might have to, or already have, concluded that I am irrational.
On the balance of probabilities. Pending falsification.

Me? I am still at 50:50. You are either rational or you are irrational. I have no evidence either way.

That's what my coin said.

Age
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:07 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:46 am
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:42 am
But you have concluded that I am irrational already.
I have done no such thing!
I did ask you if I am correct? But you neglected to add this in, and respond to that part.

I have concluded that I am rational. [/quote]

Did you use reason, or just deduced that without reason?
According to your own logic, you unfortunately can NOT justify this response.

Also, are you aware that just about ALL human beings conclude that that they, themselves, are rational?

A human trait is to LOOK AT the world and think/believe that what they SEE, conclude and deduce is rational, but "others" who do NOT conform/agree to one's own ideals, views, beliefs, et cetera, IS irrational.

So, you have concluded that the 'I' is rational, is that correct?
Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:46 am
That does not mean that you are irrational.

The falsifiable hypothesis is that you are irrational.
You could falsify this theory and prove rationality by finding a way to agree.
To agree on what exactly?

I ALREADY KNOW a way to agree.

Surely a rational agent like you, especially one who is logik, would KNOW a way to agree.

Furthermore, if I agree with you that I am irrational, then does that mean I am rational, because we are two agents agreeing, or that I am irrational, because we are two agents agreeing?

Then that leads to; if you agree that I am irrational, because we are two agents agreeing, and so if I am irrational and you are agreeing with me, then are you irrational also. Because to agree with one who is irrational could be seen to be irrational also. This could then lead down one of those "black holes" that you were referring to earlier, which was also derived from one of those "theories" that you like to quote and use. And, if I am not mistaken, was it this same "theorem" also?
Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:46 am
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:42 am
So, whoever the 'we' is that you are referring to, 'we' might have to, or already have, concluded that I am irrational.
On the balance of probabilities. Pending falsification.

Me? I am still at 50:50. You are either rational or you are irrational. I have no evidence either way.

That's what my coin said.
And, who/what is the 'we' that you say agrees with you?

Is the 'we' you AND A coin, or is it some thing else?

Logik
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Logik » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:13 pm

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:07 pm
Furthermore, if I agree with you that I am irrational, then does that mean I am rational, because we are two agents agreeing, or that I am irrational, because we are two agents agreeing?
You can't agree with me on something that I don't believe, but if you confess irrationality - we can only take your word for it.

But I haven't told you what my actual hypothesis is (nor am I going to).

Why give away my hand in a poker game, eh? :)

Age
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:24 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:13 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:07 pm
Furthermore, if I agree with you that I am irrational, then does that mean I am rational, because we are two agents agreeing, or that I am irrational, because we are two agents agreeing?
But I haven't told you what my actual hypothesis is (nor am I going to).
Great.
Logik wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:13 pm
Why give away my hand in a poker game, eh? :)
Hopefully this is the end then.

Logik
Posts: 3939
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Self-awareness

Post by Logik » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:26 pm

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:24 pm
Hopefully this is the end then.
Is it?

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