WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Belinda
Posts: 2806
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Belinda » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:49 am

The word 'purpose' translates to a conscious somebody's purpose. 'Purpose' cannot make sense as absolute in the manner that for instance 'reality' or 'the good' can be held to be absolute. If God is held to be absolute, that's to say God as not relative to anything else , then purpose will be an attribute of God only if God is conscious being.

The Bible describes God as I Am.
(Exodus 3:14): Moses asks what he is to say to the Israelites when they ask what God has sent him to them, and Yahweh replies, "I am who I am," adding, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I am has sent me to you.'"

This is a very important bit of The Bible as it describes God as a being who is a self. A self is a being that has purpose towards other beings and events. A self purposes stuff towards other beings and events and reckons that it's separate from other beings and events.

The salient belief of a Abrahamic believer is the belief that God purposes. If you or I lack that belief we are not Abrahamic believers. If we have that belief we are at heart Abrahamic believers.

Nick_A
Posts: 4257
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Nick_A » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:48 pm

Belinda wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:49 am
The word 'purpose' translates to a conscious somebody's purpose. 'Purpose' cannot make sense as absolute in the manner that for instance 'reality' or 'the good' can be held to be absolute. If God is held to be absolute, that's to say God as not relative to anything else , then purpose will be an attribute of God only if God is conscious being.

The Bible describes God as I Am.
(Exodus 3:14): Moses asks what he is to say to the Israelites when they ask what God has sent him to them, and Yahweh replies, "I am who I am," adding, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I am has sent me to you.'"

This is a very important bit of The Bible as it describes God as a being who is a self. A self is a being that has purpose towards other beings and events. A self purposes stuff towards other beings and events and reckons that it's separate from other beings and events.

The salient belief of a Abrahamic believer is the belief that God purposes. If you or I lack that belief we are not Abrahamic believers. If we have that belief we are at heart Abrahamic believers.
Do these two statements mean the same thing to you or do you sense a difference?

English Standard Version
God said to Moses, “ I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘ I AM has sent me to you.’”

King James Bible
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

seeds
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:31 pm

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by seeds » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:17 pm

Belinda wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:23 am
If there is a Supernatural Being He may perhaps be the sort of Person Who likes to set something in motion and impartially watch what happens to it.
I suggest that the key aspect in the phrase “Supernatural Being” is found in the word “natural.”

And as I have asked many times on this forum, how much more natural can the truth of our situation be than for God to be “pregnant” with us?

To understand our present relationship with the Creator of this universe, all you have to do is take the old Hermetic axiom “as above, so below” and turn it around to read “as below, so above.”

In other words, just as any mammalian creature on earth replicates itself by conceiving its offspring “within” itself, likewise, so does God.

Again, as we stand on the earth and look out into the universe, we are viewing God from a “fetal-like” perspective.

And in conjunction with that, if you can just visualize the human body as being the metaphorical equivalent of a “placenta” that will be discarded at the moment of death,...

Image

...then you will understand that what emerges from that placenta is where the word super in “supernatural” comes into play.

The bottom line is that not only does the limited level of consciousness we are designed to function at help us to accept the strange (“flying orbs”) circumstances of our momentary existence within the darkness of God’s cosmic womb,...

...it is also what helps to ensure the opacity of the “veil” that stands between us and what lies beyond our second and final birth into true reality and our ultimate (“fully-conscious”) form.

Davyboi asked:
Davyboi wrote: Why do you think we are here?
Again (as mentioned earlier), we are here because here represents the physiological means through-which the gift of life is given to us.

He also asked:
Davyboi wrote: Why do we exist?
Does a gift given out of love and the spirit of sharing require a “why”?

Isn’t the why implicit in that simple explanation?
_______

Belinda
Posts: 2806
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Belinda » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:25 pm

Nick, I prefer the King James version but the versions mean the same to me.

Belinda
Posts: 2806
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Belinda » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:29 pm

Seeds to say "God is pregnant with us " is no more than to say nature is pregnant with us. It's a claim that God is deterministic.

Nick_A
Posts: 4257
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Nick_A » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:35 am

Belinda wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:25 pm
Nick, I prefer the King James version but the versions mean the same to me.
Most people with a belief in God as an anthropomorphic being will not sense the difference. Not to get too heavily into this but consider what the phrase "I Am" means to you. Our source is I AM. It is all conscious potential beyond the limitations of time and space. Am is the necessary manifestation of potential. I am that I am is a statement of being and complete in itself. We are not God because we are not "I Am." Something must be added to Am like I am a man, a woman, a doctor, a lawyer etc. Where God is I Am. our being is "we are" We have no inner unity or big I. We are a plurality with the potential of becoming in the image of God or I Am within Creation.

The phrase "I Am who I am" describes an entity within a higher reality. Who is a limitation. Rather than a statement of being, "Who" is a statement of identity and an anthropomorphic limitation on the "isness" of our source.

roydop
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:37 pm

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by roydop » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:37 am

This realm has been created for God's (for lack of a better word) entertainment. "Your name here" is a character that God is playing. You have temporarily forgotten your divinity just as a person can lose awareness of the physical realm due to being so focused on the game.

Belinda
Posts: 2806
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Belinda » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:59 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:35 am
Belinda wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:25 pm
Nick, I prefer the King James version but the versions mean the same to me.
Most people with a belief in God as an anthropomorphic being will not sense the difference. Not to get too heavily into this but consider what the phrase "I Am" means to you. Our source is I AM. It is all conscious potential beyond the limitations of time and space. Am is the necessary manifestation of potential. I am that I am is a statement of being and complete in itself. We are not God because we are not "I Am." Something must be added to Am like I am a man, a woman, a doctor, a lawyer etc. Where God is I Am. our being is "we are" We have no inner unity or big I. We are a plurality with the potential of becoming in the image of God or I Am within Creation.

The phrase "I Am who I am" describes an entity within a higher reality. Who is a limitation. Rather than a statement of being, "Who" is a statement of identity and an anthropomorphic limitation on the "isness" of our source.
I agree entirely. I had not thought that the more archaic KJV word 'that' is taken by many people today to refer to something inanimate. My position is that I regard God as a name for possibility, but not at all anthropomorphically with consciousness , intentions, and ability to intervene in nature.

melancocky
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:39 pm

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by melancocky » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:44 am

roydop wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:37 am
This realm has been created for God's (for lack of a better word) entertainment. "Your name here" is a character that God is playing. You have temporarily forgotten your divinity just as a person can lose awareness of the physical realm due to being so focused on the game.
What's the proof of this? Why do you believe that is all true?

11011
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:42 pm

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by 11011 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:49 pm

i think human life is an accident, the product of an arbitrarily existing universe. i don't think it's a design of a God of any sort.

it has been shown that the constituents of life, organic compounds, can be produced from inorganic materials in the lab (miller-urey experiment), and so life could plausibly emerge from the primordial stew of earth when it came to be, fraught with activity in the early stages, volcanoes erupting, lightening, etc.

in other words, evolution (like darwinian evolution), is in a sense just an extension of the evolution of chemical compounds, and we have even been able to create new elements or whatever in the lab (einsteinium, etc.)

so putting the question of why the universe as a whole is here aside for a moment, i don't think it's necessary to resort to supernatural explanations to explain the emergence of life.

now on to the universe...

i don't believe it was anyone's design for a few reasons. first, if it was someone's design, why would it operate in a basically consistent, patterned fashion - the same fashion that has allowed science to grasp it. i think there would be more inconsistencies and 'this doesn't fit with this' if someone sat down and designed. what motivation would they have to make it consistent, patterned, lawful? yes there are some things still a mystery, but that's more due to technological limitations or simply we'll eventually be able to fit it into the rest, nothing has yet seriously challenged the idea that the universe operates in a consistent, patterned, lawful way - that we can observe.

second, why did God, if it exists, or any other creator make the universe so large, and seemingly vastly useless to humans? why is earth so far the only habitable planet while the rest of the universe so far is basically redundantly inhabitable and largely useless to humans. this would suggest at the very least that the universe was not created around or for us, that we emerged as an incidental accident, because something like earth happened to appear permitting by chance the emergence of something like life.

i guess you could say that's the gist of it. thoughts?

Ferdi
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:23 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Ferdi » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:23 am

Re Belinda’s of Feb25, Nick_A, and seeds, and then 11011 of Mar3.
Mentioning the Bible and God, shows your choice. I also was indoctrinated for years, culminating at a Jesuit Highschool. It took me many decades since then, to come and realise that beliefs are just human aids to get through life. If one were brought-up in a jungle near an active volcano and the tribe’s voodoo-man convinced everyone that a sacrifice should be made of an ”animal”, one would not dare to object. Now in our civilised societies we know that volcanoes are unlikely to be swayed by sacrifices.
Do you realise that our news media daily indoctrinate us with news items as facts of life. Evidence? Think about the hero-worshipping and the astronomical rewards of so-called “Stars”, be these Pop and Movie stars, or footy- , rugby- ,cricket- , tennis- , baseball- ,horse racing- , swimming- ,Olympic- , even handicapped Olympic Stars. Is it “sport” when a performer gets paid? Trophies exist as the correct token of personal achievement. Greed rules the world.
Are we here to be greedy? With my limited intelligence and my long life on various parts of the globe I can only use my opinions. Amongst all the earthlings, we humans appear to have the most intelligence, although from closely observing our various pets over the years I’ve often noticed how they show consideration and respect for us and each other.
We are not here by our own choice; we gradually come to realize where we are and what we are in our surroundings. As our surroundings change by choice, chance or pressure, we judge and decide on our actions to do as best we can. Only a few of us are free and have the means to do what we like. Most of us are restricted by our conscience, means and abilities to make a living. We learn from experience; as we age we become increasingly aware of an end and that there is little we can do about it other than carrying-on as best we can in the environment into which our life has brought us.
At my very old age, I have experienced life on planet earth; utmost joy (solo-thermal flying silently for hours in a sailplane), sadness (stray-bombs in our suburb, war scenes and atrocities during Nazi occupation), peace disturbed by fanatics (religions, anti-abortionists, animal liberationists, anti-capital punishment, anti-euthanasia, etc.), excellent health maintained by diet and fitness, suffered heart attack, survived by medical science (stent), extreme pain (kidney stones), what else can one expect?
I’m not looking forward to dying but am not scared of it for the very simple reason that there is nothing I can do about it !
Just before entering this I read 11011, which I judge the best entry sofar and suits my thoughts about LIFE just existing “infinitely”, at-the-ready to enter whatever body nature has grown to be ready for it to start its own earthly sojourn.

Belinda
Posts: 2806
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Belinda » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:05 pm

Ferdi wrote:
beliefs are just human aids to get through life.
What else could they be?

The Why ? in the title question together with the tone of the rest of the question implies that the questioner believes that there may be purpose attached to to "we" by whom I assume the questioner refers to humanity. There is no purpose that can be attributed to a species or indeed to existence itself because species and existence do not purpose. purpose may be attributed to animals, and some Romantics will attribute purpose to plants.

If humanity were a creation of some supernatural and anthropomorphic deity then this hypothetical deity would purpose just as do you or I.

Believers in some supernatural deities believe that the deity has revealed its purpose for us , to us typically in the form of holy books or in the case of Christianity through the exemplary life of a half man- half deity.

Walker
Posts: 6844
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Walker » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:48 pm

Belinda wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:05 pm
There is no purpose that can be attributed to a species or indeed to existence itself because species and existence do not purpose. purpose may be attributed to animals, and some Romantics will attribute purpose to plants.
No purpose can be attributed because a human who assigns the purpose is doing so from a cognitive perspective that is limited by a single human lifetime.

The perspective of species spans many lifetimes.

A human can only imagine a species’ perspective from within the perspective of a single lifetime that imposes the same limitation upon purpose and existence via the view that sees: species don’t have perspectives or purpose.

Belinda
Posts: 2806
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:13 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Belinda » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:17 pm

Why Do You Think We Are here? Why Do We Exist?

Intention has nothing to do with existence of species although intention has much to do with why I myself am still here.

Switzerland
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:13 am

Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Switzerland » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:55 am

Maybe there is no "why". Maybe we exist simply because we exist. I don't suppose the universe is going to tell us anytime soon. Perhaps we exist to decide for ourselves WHY we exist. For some, it's to pass on their (low tier) genes. For others, to bring glory to a deity. For me, to improve, achieve perfection/enlightenment/whateveryoucallit. Maybe that's why we're here; to decide the "why" for ourselves, then execute on said "why".

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests