WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

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Dontaskme
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Dontaskme »

Belinda wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 5:46 pm
But consciousness is recently present in the cosmos and God also includes inanimate things and entities which live unconsciously most of which predated humans and will exist after humans have vanished from the cosmos.
No, Consciousness is not recently present, as if it's something that only humans have and that it just suddendly popped aware because the humans arrived recently. Humans never arrived. Humans are ''dream characters'' they have no actual location or reality in and of themselves.. they are empty dream images, they are known concepts, they are temporal experiences of that which never arrives (Imageless Consciousness)..think of consciousness as the empty space in which a temporal object is known to exist as a concept in contrast to the non-conceptual space it's appearing in. The object is the conceptual fullness within the non-conceptual emptiness. These two apparent opposites are identical mirror images of each other...any distinction is purely mental/imagined.

That space / consciousness is all there is. It hasn't recently just appeared, space cannot appear. In fact space is just another conceptual idea, it too does not exist except as concept, all concepts are known as and when they arise as an idea one with the knowing which is not-knowing consciousness in the same instantaneous NOW ...NOW only ever happens ONCE ONE WITHOUT A SECOND - NOW IS INFINITY FOR ETERNITY...paradoxically NOW never happened.

Consciousness is just another word for God or Emptiness or Nothingness or NOWHERE NOWHERE that just IS always here now ever present. The present can never not be present. Presence cannot experience it's own absence, nor can it experience it's own presence because it's all there IS infinitely for eternity...There is no knowledge of never not here, there is no such thing as never not here, there is only never not here... as this direct instantaneous immediate ever present HERE NOW NOWHERE...THIS Not-knowing known consciousness.


Nowhere arises as both inanimate and animate things...aka known conceptual images of the imageless consciousness. That which is KNOWN cannot know, do or be anything at all for it's a dream character, each character has about as much substance as any dream character, they are simply empty images of the imageless consciousness.

Nothing predates Consciousness because Consciousness is all there is which is the totality of all manifest reality one without a second. Everything and Nothing the same one is here right now...aka the not-knowing known.

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Dontaskme
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Dontaskme »

Belinda wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 7:15 pm
Make up your mind to take the view from eternity, or the view from space/time
From the point of view of eternity there is non-duality. From the point of view of space/ time there are the myriad creatures.
View from eternity is a view eternity is having and cannot be held from a space-time position...because space-time is a view eternity that has no position is having, and every view point is temporal, a human being is a view point eternity is having...nothing finite can have a view, any thing finite is the view eternity is having.

Space/time is a finite view of infinity for eternity, therefore anything finite is just a temporal experience of the infinite unlimited source experiencing itself infinite times in a finite limited way.

Non-duality is duality in the same instant. There is no non-duality separate from it's dual nature, they are one and the same difference...There is no reference point or view sourced from a temporal space-time duality ..for duality is non-dual, in which duality is just a myriad of views appearing in non-dual reality that cannot be viewed...for it is the viewing.

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Dontaskme
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Dontaskme »

seeds wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 1:02 am First of all, do you actually believe that Consciousness...

(something that has probably been in existence literally FOREVER – trillions and trillions of years prior to the creation of our particular universe)

...still hasn’t yet been able to figure out (discover) what it really is?
First of all consciousness doesn't know what it is only what it imagines itself to be....and FOREVER is just another conceptual label for the ETERNAL NOW....which is only ever consciousness...And creation aka imagination is only ever NOW as creator creating and creation are one in the same instantaneous moment, namely, NOW...Consciousness and the contents of consciousness are the same reality, mirror images of itself, all imagined mirages...aka images of the imageless...aka not-knowing consciousness.

There is no now prior to now. NOW is always timelessly NOW.
To discover is to remember what is already HERE NOW WIDE AWAKE ALL KNOWING...else there would be nothing to discover. Knowing cannot know itself until that knowing arises within itself in the instant it is known one with the knowing...this continues as one unitary action for infinity...infinity is this infinite timeless endless wide awake experiencing of every conceivable experience there is to experience limitless in potential.

Only that which is already known can be known. When there is an awakening from a dreaming sleep, only then can the awake one know and be aware it has been dreaming, characters in the dream have no knowledge of being that character, for the characters are already known to the consciousness that they are arising in....So even the day dream of reality where there are people and trees and cats and cars etc...is no different to the things seen in a night time dream reality...all things seen in both day dreams and night dreams are all seen appearances by the same one consciousness, the only seeing and knowing there is.

So this is about the exploration of CONSCIOUSNESS SELF and being curious enough to persue every conceiveable experience possible which ever which way oR scenario or permutation is desired, so as long as there is the desire to discover, so will that manifest, this will continue indefinitely infinitely for eternity for there is no limit to imagination, it is totally free to be what ever it so desires.

As for consciousness itself it is the unknowable source of all conceptual known dream images,there is no knowledge of what consciousness is, only the knowledge of what it imagines itself to be as an image of itself appears in it known as concepts...and so this consciousness can be ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING it imagines itself to be infinitely for all eternity....any seen image is not the dreamer or the seer of that image...every seen image is being looked upon by the only seeing / knower there is which is consciousness...which is known directly, and not known conceptually within the dream framework for one very good reason.


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seeds wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 1:02 amSecondly, how did you come to the conclusion that our particular universe is “infinite”?

And lastly, please offer a logical explanation of how “...YOU..and Me..and everyone in the infinite universe...” grabbed hold of the fabric of reality and shaped it into a hundred billion galaxies of suns and planets?
The universe is a finite concept known by the infinite...aka consciousness...the only knowing there is.

Empty Infinite Intelligent Mind grabs hold of it's own self made concepts and weaves and elaborate story out of itself like a spider spins a web out of it's own being...this can be experientially known for it's this direct experience right here and now experiencing itself.

How does it do that? cannot be answered, for that would require a separate knower outside of this immediate knowing, one with the knower. You already are THAT..there is no known other that knows, for other is known by the one and only ..only the lonely, all one all alone.. That which is known aka a body, or a person...cannot know anything, for it's already known, by the one and only One knower.

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seeds
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by seeds »

seeds wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 1:02 am First of all, do you actually believe that Consciousness...

(something that has probably been in existence literally FOREVER – trillions and trillions of years prior to the creation of our particular universe)

...still hasn’t yet been able to figure out (discover) what it really is?

Secondly, how did you come to the conclusion that our particular universe is “infinite”?

And lastly, please offer a logical explanation of how “...YOU..and Me..and everyone in the infinite universe...” grabbed hold of the fabric of reality and shaped it into a hundred billion galaxies of suns and planets?
Ramu wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 6:07 am It transcends proofs and logic because the Absosolute IS Truth. God IS..IT is Being...and lastly you're approaching this from a rationalist, materialist paradigm. I'm approaching it from a non dualistic paradigm. I'm not religious whatsoever, and it's interesting how science attempts to distance itself from religion as being more "True"...yet science is just as dogmatic and limited as theological religion.
I may indeed be approaching this from a rationalistic point of view, but I assure you that I am definitely not a materialist.

Now I apologize if I come off as sounding mean-spirited in this reply, but the strawman arguments you are employing, combined with your vague and arcane language (“...the Absosolute IS Truth. God IS..IT is Being...”) is just smoke and mirrors to disguise the fact that you simply cannot answer the questions I posed to you.

And finally, trust me, I understand the concept of non-duality, and in no way, shape, or form can you use it (non-duality) as some kind of “magic phrase” that somehow dismisses the mystery of how the unfathomable order of the universe was achieved.

So don’t even go there.
_______
BlackChristianMind
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by BlackChristianMind »

Ramu wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 11:06 pm
Walker wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 6:05 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri May 24, 2019 5:46 pm Ramu wrote:



But consciousness is recently present in the cosmos and God also includes inanimate things and entities which live unconsciously most of which predated humans and will exist after humans have vanished from the cosmos.
Because nothing cannot be, we are the unmoving balance point between increasing complexity and increasing entropy that is the center of all that can be, since being is a function of consciousness*, which is larger in size than the scope of any denial.

* different states of consciousness result in different states of being.
I'm not talking about different states of consciousness equating different states of being. I'm talking about the ABSOLUTE. Being=Consciousness=Source=God=True Self. There is only ONE and you're IT. The ONE wants to know ITSELF but can only do that by manifesting as a limited human. Then by fooling itself into thinking it's this human...can God truly know itself..by witnessing itself (the Universe) from billions of different vantage points. You ARE God..you just forgot.
When you look at the vast complexity of the world, nature, the human body, how can you possibly imagine that it was created by lowly human beings? People don't create things and then forget that they created them unless they are suffering from dementia, and it's usually downhill from there.
Ferdi
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Ferdi »

Re seeds of Sat May 25, 2019 1:02 am : “Secondly, how did you come to the conclusion that our particular universe is infinite?”

What do you mean with “our particular universe”, have we got neighbours in another universe? News to me but we are free to believe what we like.
Let me try to prove the abstract concept of infinity. Take a match-stick, multiply its length by 2, and again, and again, keep on multiplying, 2 to the power of n , “n” getting larger and larger; the distance will reach beyond our concept of the universe. And don’t forget to also go into the opposite direction, smaller and smaller, keep cutting the match-stick pieces in halves, 1/2 to power n. The pieces will get so small as to reach beyond the smallest particle we may be able to think of; beyond the limit of our useful dimensions where distance and time dissolve into the space of INFINITY, beyond our senses, although it includes the space that surrounds us and penetrates all. “Life”, that abstract concept, comes from and returns to our infinite space. We found ourselves to have been born on what we labelled “Planet Earth”, floating in space held by gravitational forces. We have been gradually developing science to see “why things are so”. The mighty forces of nature led our forefathers to invent Gods. Man-made beliefs became religions, stories were told, Holy books were written to record the stories. Fanatic believers convinced themselves to have a God-given duty to promote their beliefs, history books recorded HOLY wars, still raging today in spite of science having enabled man to walk on the moon!
Let us respect life, live and let live. One’s own conscience may be the ultimate judge at death.
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Dontaskme
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Dontaskme »

seeds wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 5:29 pm
Now I apologize if I come off as sounding mean-spirited in this reply, but the strawman arguments you are employing, combined with your vague and arcane language
Oh pleeeeeease!! apologise to y(ourself at once..
y(our) the only one that has to live with y(our) condescending ass-u-me mean-spirit...pleeeeeease, give y(our) self a break already.

Y - Y - Y are you throwing stones at y(our) image in the mirror?

You see it's like this actually, Oneness doesn't have an arugment with itself, it's got no body to argue with bar itself (preposition . . aka no one :shock:

Argumentive's are all Strawman's including y(ours) ...don't be a MR Scarecrow!
..Y be a scared puddy cat, be the lion the one you were born to BE :P
seeds wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 5:29 pm And finally, trust me, I understand the concept of non-duality, and in no way, shape, or form can you use it (non-duality) as some kind of “magic phrase”
But it IS ....MAGIC :wink: No one weaved the web of life.

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Dontaskme
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Dontaskme »

Ferdi wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 4:15 am Re seeds of Sat May 25, 2019 1:02 am : “Secondly, how did you come to the conclusion that our particular universe is infinite?”

What do you mean with “our particular universe”, have we got neighbours in another universe? News to me but we are free to believe what we like.
Let me try to prove the abstract concept of infinity. Take a match-stick, multiply its length by 2, and again, and again, keep on multiplying, 2 to the power of n , “n” getting larger and larger; the distance will reach beyond our concept of the universe. And don’t forget to also go into the opposite direction, smaller and smaller, keep cutting the match-stick pieces in halves, 1/2 to power n. The pieces will get so small as to reach beyond the smallest particle we may be able to think of; beyond the limit of our useful dimensions where distance and time dissolve into the space of INFINITY, beyond our senses, although it includes the space that surrounds us and penetrates all. “Life”, that abstract concept, comes from and returns to our infinite space. We found ourselves to have been born on what we labelled “Planet Earth”, floating in space held by gravitational forces. We have been gradually developing science to see “why things are so”. The mighty forces of nature led our forefathers to invent Gods. Man-made beliefs became religions, stories were told, Holy books were written to record the stories. Fanatic believers convinced themselves to have a God-given duty to promote their beliefs, history books recorded HOLY wars, still raging today in spite of science having enabled man to walk on the moon!
Let us respect life, live and let live. One’s own conscience may be the ultimate judge at death.
The story of planet earth and it's human inhabitants writing stories about stories about stories add infinitum which include religion and gods and holy wars and and ideas such as being judged at death including all the beliefs about those stories is just ONE of an INFINITE amount of parallel realities that are simultaneously occuring all at ONCE right NOW... all inclusive within (ONE ULTIMATE REALITY) aka NOW aka INFINITY ITSELF.

Nothing wrong or right with any of it, it's just what's not/happening to no ONE...as every possible conceivable experience will be played out infinitely for eternity...as consciousness seeks to explore and discover itself...and to know that nothing ever happened to it, in that it only appeared to happen, as in like a dream.

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Ramu
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Ramu »

seeds wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 5:29 pm
seeds wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 1:02 am First of all, do you actually believe that Consciousness...

(something that has probably been in existence literally FOREVER – trillions and trillions of years prior to the creation of our particular universe)

...still hasn’t yet been able to figure out (discover) what it really is?

Secondly, how did you come to the conclusion that our particular universe is “infinite”?

And lastly, please offer a logical explanation of how “...YOU..and Me..and everyone in the infinite universe...” grabbed hold of the fabric of reality and shaped it into a hundred billion galaxies of suns and planets?
Ramu wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 6:07 am It transcends proofs and logic because the Absosolute IS Truth. God IS..IT is Being...and lastly you're approaching this from a rationalist, materialist paradigm. I'm approaching it from a non dualistic paradigm. I'm not religious whatsoever, and it's interesting how science attempts to distance itself from religion as being more "True"...yet science is just as dogmatic and limited as theological religion.
I may indeed be approaching this from a rationalistic point of view, but I assure you that I am definitely not a materialist.

Now I apologize if I come off as sounding mean-spirited in this reply, but the strawman arguments you are employing, combined with your vague and arcane language (“...the Absosolute IS Truth. God IS..IT is Being...”) is just smoke and mirrors to disguise the fact that you simply cannot answer the questions I posed to you.

And finally, trust me, I understand the concept of non-duality, and in no way, shape, or form can you use it (non-duality) as some kind of “magic phrase” that somehow dismisses the mystery of how the unfathomable order of the universe was achieved.

So don’t even go there.
_______
I'm afraid it's too late because I went there.
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Dontaskme
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Dontaskme »

Ramu wrote: Sun May 26, 2019 9:53 am
seeds wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 5:29 pm
seeds wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 1:02 am First of all, do you actually believe that Consciousness...

(something that has probably been in existence literally FOREVER – trillions and trillions of years prior to the creation of our particular universe)

...still hasn’t yet been able to figure out (discover) what it really is?

Secondly, how did you come to the conclusion that our particular universe is “infinite”?

And lastly, please offer a logical explanation of how “...YOU..and Me..and everyone in the infinite universe...” grabbed hold of the fabric of reality and shaped it into a hundred billion galaxies of suns and planets?
Ramu wrote: Sat May 25, 2019 6:07 am It transcends proofs and logic because the Absosolute IS Truth. God IS..IT is Being...and lastly you're approaching this from a rationalist, materialist paradigm. I'm approaching it from a non dualistic paradigm. I'm not religious whatsoever, and it's interesting how science attempts to distance itself from religion as being more "True"...yet science is just as dogmatic and limited as theological religion.
I may indeed be approaching this from a rationalistic point of view, but I assure you that I am definitely not a materialist.

Now I apologize if I come off as sounding mean-spirited in this reply, but the strawman arguments you are employing, combined with your vague and arcane language (“...the Absosolute IS Truth. God IS..IT is Being...”) is just smoke and mirrors to disguise the fact that you simply cannot answer the questions I posed to you.

And finally, trust me, I understand the concept of non-duality, and in no way, shape, or form can you use it (non-duality) as some kind of “magic phrase” that somehow dismisses the mystery of how the unfathomable order of the universe was achieved.

So don’t even go there.
_______
I'm afraid it's too late because I went there.

God has left the building.

Can't go back to what's already happened.

There's just no way back, the point of no return is right here and now.

:wink:
The Woodster
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by The Woodster »

I have a good theory, read my "The Meaning of Life" and all will become clear!
surreptitious57
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Dontaskme wrote:
The story of planet earth and its human inhabitants writing stories about stories about stories add infinitum which include religion and gods and holy wars and and ideas such as being judged at death including all the beliefs about those stories is just ONE of an INFINITE amount of parallel realities that are simultaneously occuring all at ONCE right NOW ... all inclusive within ( ONE ULTIMATE REALITY ) aka NOW aka INFINITY ITSELF

Nothing wrong or right with any of it its just whats not happening to no ONE ... as every possible conceivable experience will be played
out infinitely for eternity ... as consciousness seeks to explore and discover itself ... and to know that nothing ever happened to it in
that it only appeared to happen as in like a dream
I agree with the first paragraph but not the second
I think that once irreversible death occurs all that follows is an eternal state of non consciousness
A non consciousness that is free from all suffering and therefore should not in any way be feared
jayjacobus
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by jayjacobus »

We are all on a journey and the journey exists. What you do along the way is up to you. It may be important. It may be insignifocant.
Whayever you want, that's up to you.
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Dontaskme
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Dontaskme »

surreptitious57 wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:14 pm
Dontaskme wrote:
The story of planet earth and its human inhabitants writing stories about stories about stories add infinitum which include religion and gods and holy wars and and ideas such as being judged at death including all the beliefs about those stories is just ONE of an INFINITE amount of parallel realities that are simultaneously occuring all at ONCE right NOW ... all inclusive within ( ONE ULTIMATE REALITY ) aka NOW aka INFINITY ITSELF

Nothing wrong or right with any of it its just whats not happening to no ONE ... as every possible conceivable experience will be played
out infinitely for eternity ... as consciousness seeks to explore and discover itself ... and to know that nothing ever happened to it in
that it only appeared to happen as in like a dream
I agree with the first paragraph but not the second
I think that once irreversible death occurs all that follows is an eternal state of non consciousness
A non consciousness that is free from all suffering and therefore should not in any way be feared
Do you mean a non-consciousness state as opposed to what is known as a conscious state?

What if the non-conscious state that is death is actually the same state as knowing one is alive?...what if the sense of 'being alive' is not actually real, and that being alive is just the same as being dead?

What in your opinion makes a human being KNOW to make a claim such as ''I am alive'' ..and yet I wasn't alive before my birth, and I will not be alive after my death? what is making that claim?

What, if you don't mind me asking.. can say and know that knowledge of itself and is that knowledge real actual fact or fiction?

Thanks surreptitious57.

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Belinda
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme, very few know they are alive when they are alive, well, and dreaming. During dreaming most people lose sense of self.
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