Humans are fundamentally evil - according to Science

[TimeSeeker]

I had a perfect existence before my parents decided to create me but I shall return there eventually
I have no fear of death at all so it can take me any time but hopefully it will be a peaceful transition

Who wants to die now not me even though it is for me an absolute freedom simply because suffering cannot be experienced
An eternal state of non existence with no suffering is infinitely better than a finite one with suffering such as this existence

So you prefer death to life? Non-existence to existence?

But you don't want to die now?

[surreptitious57]

I have no problem leaving the time of my death to Nature so am not in a hurry to die
But non existence is infinitely preferable to existence because suffering ceases to be

[TimeSeeker]

am not in a hurry to die

non existence is infinitely preferable to existence

These two statements make for a performative contradiction. Or as your grandmother says: actions speak louder than words.

You SAY non-existence is 'infinitely preferable' to existence and yet you CHOOSE the 'less preferable' option.
The "most preferable" CHOICE is available to you. Suicide. Yet you do not CHOOSE it. Why?

You lack doxastic commitment: http://rightreason.typepad.com/right_re ... tment.html

[surreptitious57]

Suicide does not work and while non existence is preferable to existence this does not mean existence
is unbearable because it is not and is why I am letting Nature decide my time of death rather than me

[TimeSeeker]

Suicide does not work and while non existence is preferable to existence this does not mean existence
is unbearable because it is not and is why I am letting Nature decide my time of death rather than me

Euthenasia works. Either way - we can ensure death.

It doesn't matter if existence is bearable or unbearable (or any other qualities you ascribe to it)
You claim that non-existence is infinitely preferable.

So CHOOSE it! That is what 'infinitely preferable' means!

Given all possible choices - "infinitely preferable" means your first choice!

And since you are CHOOSING to respond to my comments, instead of CHOOSING your 'infinitely preferable' choice.
I am inferring that this debate is (infinitely + 1) preferable?

That is - more preferable than dying.

[surreptitious57]

Non existence is infinitely preferable to existence from a general ontological perspective
But in reality one can wait for death to naturally occur rather than choose suicide instead

[TimeSeeker]

Non existence is infinitely preferable to existence from a general ontological perspective
But in reality one can wait for death to naturally occur rather than choose suicide instead

Whose general ontological perspective? Not mine. Not yours.

Whose?

[Eodnhoj7]

If humans are fundamentally evil, and this is a truth statement, but humans lie because they are evil...are humans fundamentally evil?

[surreptitious57]

For me non existence is infinitely preferable to existence because it is free from suffering and is also eternal
I could [ and will at some point ] easily be dead forever but cannot [ were it possible ] easily be alive forever

[TimeSeeker]

For me non existence is infinitely preferable to existence

By staying alive instead of committing suicide - you are lying.

You are not Doxastic committed to your belief: http://rightreason.typepad.com/right_re ... tment.html

[surreptitious57]

I am not committed to it because letting go is more a slow painless process
This existence is very short and there is no pain so suicide is not necessary

[TimeSeeker]

I am not committed to it because letting go is more a slow painless process

So if non-existence is infinitely preferable.
And suicide is painful you are still making a choice: painless transition to non-existence.
Therefore painless transition to non-existence is more preferable to non-existence.

You contradict your own claim.

This existence is very short and there is no pain so suicide is not necessary

But non existence is infinitely preferable to existence because suffering ceases to be

So life is not painful but it is suffering?

Choosing to live over suicide means you prefer suffering over non-existence.

[surreptitious57]

This existence is more than bearable and as long as it is then I will choose life over death every time
I just would not want to be alive for ever but as that is not going to happen then there is no problem

[TimeSeeker]

This existence is more than bearable and as long as it is then I will choose life over death every time
I just would not want to be alive for ever but as that is not going to happen then there is no problem

That is a more coherent position

But then you do not prefer non-existence infinitely. You prefer bearable existence more than non-existence.
The difference comes in self-determinism (free will/choice)

If I was immortal - I could always commit suicide. The choice exists.
The other way doesn't work. Right now. I cannot choose to be immortal.
Or choose to live for 200 years. Even if if was bearable.

[surreptitious57]

When I say that non existence is infinitely preferable to existence I only mean philosophically
From an emotional perspective I can still prefer life over death and see no contradiction here
There is no meaning to life but that does not mean one cannot give meaning to their own life