Common Courtesy

For all things philosophical.

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henry quirk
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"Henry m'lad, you are the one in fantasyland"

Post by henry quirk » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:13 pm

We'll see, or 'I' will.

You'll be dead.

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Greta
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Re: Trying to sort out those errant humans

Post by Greta » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:57 pm

TimeSeeker wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:15 am
Greta wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:54 am
I reject the criticism. "Truly" was shorthand for "living indefinitely". The astronaut who lived on ISS for just one year is a physical mess so this problem's solution is a long way off.
Relatively - which one do you think is "longer way off" solving the problems of well-being in space or digitising humans? Given our limited resources - we need to prioritize somehow. If you want to make an omelette you have to break some eggs. I am thankful and infinitely grateful to the astronaut for putting his ass on the line so we can learn from his suffering.
Since taking billions, or even millions, of people out into in space to safely and satisfactorily live is utterly impossible so I choose the (speculative and wildly uncertain) possibility of digitisation, because at least it has some tiny chance of happening.
TimeSeeker wrote:
Greta wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:54 am
Also the logistics of bringing large numbers of people is impossible, especially since their journey would be subsidised by those left on Earth, so there is also a serious political impediment to sending any but VIPs offworld, if they decide that living like a submariner on some godforsaken barren desert world is desirable.
Transmission of large number of digitized humans is also going to be costly. Bandwidth too is a finite resource. Unless it violates the laws of physics - nothing is impossible. Only expensive. Until we make it cheaper with technology.
It's cheap if they are put on hard drives. The expense comes with pre-production.
TimeSeeker wrote:
Greta wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:54 am
I am unsure whether digitisation is possible too. Really, if I was a betting women my money would be on AI continuing the story elsewhere for us.
And if we do succeed in digitising ourselves. We can continue our story - right here. In quantum computers. Experiencing time at a much faster rate than we do now.
However, as you noted, for risk management purposes the aim is to become multi-planetary.
TimeSeeker wrote:
Greta wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:54 am
Then there's the gravity issue. Radiation. Temperatures. Dust storms. Meteors in the absence of a substantial atmosphere. Sanity. God knows what else. Then there's logistical, financial and political problem of sending the thousands of people needed to avoid inbreeding and allow of healthy genetic diversity in a space community.
And those are all problems we will have to tackle. Either way we need a gradual progression towards success.

Frankly - as proof-of-concept I would like to see human survival-at-scale in less demanding terrains first. Everest. Underwater. The desert. There be social factors we haven't considered... And those are the hardest to solve!
It's already being done. My understanding is that the first attempt needed to be abandoned due to conflicts.

Dalek Prime
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Re: Common Courtesy

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:03 pm

I just don't get why you two want to put any form of awareness out in space. Even if possible, you two fail to see yourselves deciding for someone else what to do with them, and put them through. Petty gods you are. It's revolting. And for no reason save your own edification. I can imagine the whole of life over the ages, with everyone arguing over how we came to be, and for what reason, only to find that it was some upscale Greta God deciding to begin a new iteration of the universe, on a whim.

If you cant see the horror in that, it's pointless trying to tell you. Horror doesn't exist without awareness. Why cant people be satisfied with their own awareness, if they love it so much, without deciding for others that it's great for them as well. If something doesn't have consciousness, don't assume it needs it, or needs to be created. The created has to deal with the fallout.

Damn it. Humanities incessant, mindless desire to perpetuate itself drives me absolutely insane.

TimeSeeker
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Re: Common Courtesy

Post by TimeSeeker » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:43 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:03 pm
I just don't get why you two want to put any form of awareness out in space. Even if possible, you two fail to see yourselves deciding for someone else what to do with them, and put them through. Petty gods you are. It's revolting. And for no reason save your own edification. I can imagine the whole of life over the ages, with everyone arguing over how we came to be, and for what reason, only to find that it was some upscale Greta God deciding to begin a new iteration of the universe, on a whim.

If you cant see the horror in that, it's pointless trying to tell you. Horror doesn't exist without awareness. Why cant people be satisfied with their own awareness, if they love it so much, without deciding for others that it's great for them as well. If something doesn't have consciousness, don't assume it needs it, or needs to be created. The created has to deal with the fallout.

Damn it. Humanities incessant, mindless desire to perpetuate itself drives me absolutely insane.
You have some issues. If you are upset with your parents who brought you into this world without your consent - consider removing yourself. Suicide is the exit door.
If you don't wish to procreate - don't.
If you do not wish to leave Earth - don't.

No choice has been taken away from you. Do not remove the option of choice from others.

I want to go to space. Whether you get why or not is irrelevant.

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henry quirk
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"I want to go to space."

Post by henry quirk » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:21 pm

Yep, me too.

We can, we should, we will.

Any one who wants to stay behind: stay behind.

Any one who wants up and out: be patient, stay alive.

Dalek Prime
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Re: Common Courtesy

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:35 pm

TimeSeeker wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:43 pm
Dalek Prime wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:03 pm
I just don't get why you two want to put any form of awareness out in space. Even if possible, you two fail to see yourselves deciding for someone else what to do with them, and put them through. Petty gods you are. It's revolting. And for no reason save your own edification. I can imagine the whole of life over the ages, with everyone arguing over how we came to be, and for what reason, only to find that it was some upscale Greta God deciding to begin a new iteration of the universe, on a whim.

If you cant see the horror in that, it's pointless trying to tell you. Horror doesn't exist without awareness. Why cant people be satisfied with their own awareness, if they love it so much, without deciding for others that it's great for them as well. If something doesn't have consciousness, don't assume it needs it, or needs to be created. The created has to deal with the fallout.

Damn it. Humanities incessant, mindless desire to perpetuate itself drives me absolutely insane.
You have some issues. If you are upset with your parents who brought you into this world without your consent - consider removing yourself. Suicide is the exit door.
If you don't wish to procreate - don't.
If you do not wish to leave Earth - don't.

No choice has been taken away from you. Do not remove the option of choice from others.

I want to go to space. Whether you get why or not is irrelevant.
You are a twat. Piss off. You will die on earth.

TimeSeeker
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Re: Common Courtesy

Post by TimeSeeker » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:38 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:35 pm
You are a twat. Piss off. You will die on earth.
It is highly probable, but space tourism is just around the corner.

I'd piss on your grave from outer space, but gravity doesn't work like that.

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henry quirk
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c'mon, Dal, TS ain't done nuthin' to you...

Post by henry quirk » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:39 pm

...why be a dick?

Dalek Prime
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Re: c'mon, Dal, TS ain't done nuthin' to you...

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:06 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:39 pm
...why be a dick?
What's a twat without a dick, henry? ;)

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:14 pm

:|

Dalek Prime
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Re:

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:36 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:14 pm
:|
Oh, c'mon henry. Smile. That was funny. :lol:

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:32 pm

Yeah, it was.

Dalek Prime
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Re:

Post by Dalek Prime » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:21 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:32 pm
Yeah, it was.
That's the henry I know and love. :)

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Greta
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Re: Common Courtesy

Post by Greta » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:38 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:03 pm
I just don't get why you two want to put any form of awareness out in space. Even if possible, you two fail to see yourselves deciding for someone else what to do with them, and put them through. Petty gods you are. It's revolting. And for no reason save your own edification. I can imagine the whole of life over the ages, with everyone arguing over how we came to be, and for what reason, only to find that it was some upscale Greta God deciding to begin a new iteration of the universe, on a whim.

If you cant see the horror in that, it's pointless trying to tell you. Horror doesn't exist without awareness. Why cant people be satisfied with their own awareness, if they love it so much, without deciding for others that it's great for them as well. If something doesn't have consciousness, don't assume it needs it, or needs to be created. The created has to deal with the fallout.

Damn it. Humanities incessant, mindless desire to perpetuate itself drives me absolutely insane.
For once I agree with Henry, D, you are a bit of a twat ;) An upscale Greta God would at least be better than the clapped out old jalopy writing this.

I'd rather be a petty goddess, raining down my accursed consciousness opon the unsuspecting inanimate. Fuck 'em. If we have to deal, then so should they rather than sitting around perfectly calmly - smug fuckin' rocks, thinking they are so great just because they're relatively stable. Wake up, dickhead rocks, time to get busy!

I recently wrote a short story about this - 'Let There Be Rocks' about the battle between geology and biology. You'd like some of parts where geology bitches about biology. Rocks get the last laugh but I won't spoil the ending :)

Dalek Prime
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Re: Common Courtesy

Post by Dalek Prime » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:46 pm

Greta wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:38 pm
Dalek Prime wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:03 pm
I just don't get why you two want to put any form of awareness out in space. Even if possible, you two fail to see yourselves deciding for someone else what to do with them, and put them through. Petty gods you are. It's revolting. And for no reason save your own edification. I can imagine the whole of life over the ages, with everyone arguing over how we came to be, and for what reason, only to find that it was some upscale Greta God deciding to begin a new iteration of the universe, on a whim.

If you cant see the horror in that, it's pointless trying to tell you. Horror doesn't exist without awareness. Why cant people be satisfied with their own awareness, if they love it so much, without deciding for others that it's great for them as well. If something doesn't have consciousness, don't assume it needs it, or needs to be created. The created has to deal with the fallout.

Damn it. Humanities incessant, mindless desire to perpetuate itself drives me absolutely insane.
For once I agree with Henry, D, you are a bit of a twat ;) An upscale Greta God would at least be better than the clapped out old jalopy writing this.

I'd rather be a petty goddess, raining down my accursed consciousness opon the unsuspecting inanimate. Fuck 'em. If we have to deal, then so should they rather than sitting around perfectly calmly - smug fuckin' rocks, thinking they are so great just because they're relatively stable. Wake up, dickhead rocks, time to get busy!

I recently wrote a short story about this - 'Let There Be Rocks' about the battle between geology and biology. You'd like some of parts where geology bitches about biology. Rocks get the last laugh but I won't spoil the ending :)
Ahem... I'm the dick. TimeSeeker is the twat. And I was just having a 'poke' at him. :wink: Gold star for the rest of the post though. Sounds like an enjoyable story :)

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