Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

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commonsense
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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by commonsense » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:55 pm

Greta wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:02 am
It's complicated and impractical. Thus people find it boring and irrelevant, fussing about things that can safely be taken for granted.

However, their innocent bravado is exposed when they are lying on the deathbeds, and then suddenly those boring and irrelevant existential and moral philosophical notions become incredibly interesting and important.
Important to some, but to others these notions have already been put to rest by blind faith.

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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:57 pm

It's the old joke; three rabbis, four opinions.

commonsense
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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by commonsense » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:03 pm

A_Seagull wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:10 am
Because so much of what has been written about philosophy is false or irrelevant or both.
But demonstrating , let alone proving, that it is irrelevant or false is a hard task.
Interesting. But falsehood has a peculiar quality. If a false statement is made early, made loud and fast, it will be believed by most.

commonsense
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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by commonsense » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:18 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:35 pm
commonsense wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:59 pm
What is it about us that makes others tune us out? Why is it that what inspires our passions invokes boredom in others? How did we become irrelevant in the eyes of the public?
Because we aren't money makers. Philosophy has never been that sort of pursuit.And, no one wants to know the underbelly of the world and their lives. They spend most of it trying to avoid the muck they live and crawl through. But some of us like the muck, squeeze it through our fingers, and exult in it.

But most? They want stability. Security. Certainty. You don't get that in philosophy.
So true. Money talks, and we aren’t money makers.

There is definitely no stability, security or certainty in philosophy. For every argument, a counter argument seems to come along eventually.

commonsense
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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by commonsense » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:23 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:21 pm
Mostly, I think, cuz philosopher-types are jackasses.

Most folks get their backs up when know-it-all jerk offs lecture them.

Most obvious example that comes to mind: the whole 'free will' thing.

Most, probably all, people have the sense of choosing, directing.

Along comes a philosopher who not only sez 'no, you choose nuthin' but also sez 'you're an idiot for thinkin' you do'.

And folks are supposed to just love up on such a person?

Yeah.

You want some love from the general population?

First excise the congential jackasses, then 'be nice'.
Yes, and then be patient with the ignorance and disdain.

commonsense
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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by commonsense » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:24 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:57 pm
It's the old joke; three rabbis, four opinions.
And five congregations.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:40 pm

ignorance

See? Right there, that's (part of) the problem.

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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by Nick_A » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:43 pm

commonsense wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:59 pm
What is it about us that makes others tune us out? Why is it that what inspires our passions invokes boredom in others? How did we become irrelevant in the eyes of the public?
I'm not sure what you mean. It seems to me that philosophy is very popular in modern society. Plato defined Man as a being in search of meaning. Technology has solved that problem. It has provided the experience of meaning. Philosophy is the process of arguing which leads to wisdom. Media makes its money by intensifying arguments. Where would politics be without constant debates like over Trump. What could the result be other than wisdom? So if the population as a whole has found sufficient meaning and constantly participating in arguments and debates, modern philosophy prospers and our arguments are very relevant.

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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:58 pm

Greta wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:02 am
It's complicated and impractical. Thus people find it boring and irrelevant, fussing about things that can safely be taken for granted.

However, their innocent bravado is exposed when they are lying on the deathbeds, and then suddenly those boring and irrelevant existential and moral philosophical notions become incredibly interesting and important.
A little too late. Then they're left grasping at the first bit of muck that some priest says to them. I'd rather die with my own thoughts on what it was about, than someone else's mental jizz washing over me. (Eww!)

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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by -1- » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:32 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:58 pm
Greta wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:02 am
It's complicated and impractical. Thus people find it boring and irrelevant, fussing about things that can safely be taken for granted.

However, their innocent bravado is exposed when they are lying on the deathbeds, and then suddenly those boring and irrelevant existential and moral philosophical notions become incredibly interesting and important.
A little too late. Then they're left grasping at the first bit of muck that some priest says to them. I'd rather die with my own thoughts on what it was about, than someone else's mental jizz washing over me. (Eww!)
Mmmm... somebody else's.... mentla jizzm... washing over me... I would think I had already died and gone to heaven.

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A_Seagull
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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by A_Seagull » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:34 pm

commonsense wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:03 pm
A_Seagull wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:10 am
Because so much of what has been written about philosophy is false or irrelevant or both.
But demonstrating , let alone proving, that it is irrelevant or false is a hard task.
Interesting. But falsehood has a peculiar quality. If a false statement is made early, made loud and fast, it will be believed by most.
Perhaps, but not by a real philosopher.

commonsense
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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by commonsense » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:49 pm

A_Seagull wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:34 pm
commonsense wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:03 pm
A_Seagull wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:10 am
Because so much of what has been written about philosophy is false or irrelevant or both.
But demonstrating , let alone proving, that it is irrelevant or false is a hard task.
Interesting. But falsehood has a peculiar quality. If a false statement is made early, made loud and fast, it will be believed by most.
Perhaps, but not by a real philosopher.
Excellent point. If I would've said more, I would have said that, too. It takes critical thinking skills to evaluate statements on their own merit.

Sadly, there are too many who lack those skills.

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Greta
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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by Greta » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:24 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:58 pm
Greta wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:02 am
It's complicated and impractical. Thus people find it boring and irrelevant, fussing about things that can safely be taken for granted.

However, their innocent bravado is exposed when they are lying on the deathbeds, and then suddenly those boring and irrelevant existential and moral philosophical notions become incredibly interesting and important.
A little too late. Then they're left grasping at the first bit of muck that some priest says to them. I'd rather die with my own thoughts on what it was about, than someone else's mental jizz washing over me. (Eww!)
I think most of us would request that soul parasites not be in attendance in our final days. It's not as though they have been offering to come over and vac the house, mow the lawn, rub my sore muscles or help struggling friends. So they are too late for visitation rights - they didn't pay their dues.

Once the lights start going out, though, it doesn't matter if a herd of randy bull elephants jizzed over you after months of enforced sexual deprivation (and no umbrella provided), because people at that the end of their lives either fade to black or shift to a new subjective realm where the jizzers can't get to them.

commonsense
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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by commonsense » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:58 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:43 pm
commonsense wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:59 pm
What is it about us that makes others tune us out? Why is it that what inspires our passions invokes boredom in others? How did we become irrelevant in the eyes of the public?
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:43 pm
I'm not sure what you mean. It seems to me that philosophy is very popular in modern society.
I’m glad to see someone take issue with the assertion that philosophy is viewed with disdain by the general public. I agree that philosophy is experienced by many people, but I think it’s when their experience is not recognized as philosophy that the public finds philosophy to be intriguing.

The political debates and intensified arguments are certainly what captures their attention; however, I think what makes these things interesting to non-philosophers are the debates and arguments themselves. I just don’t see the layperson as sophisticated enough to appreciate philosophical discourse.
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:43 pm
Plato defined Man as a being in search of meaning.
Good point. However, I believe it is Thinking Man or Woman who searches for meaning, not Average Man or Women.
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:43 pm
Technology has solved that problem. It has provided the experience of meaning.
Nick, please explain what you mean by this. Thanks.
Nick_A wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:43 pm
Philosophy is the process of arguing which leads to wisdom. Media makes its money by intensifying arguments. Where would politics be without constant debates like over Trump. What could the result be other than wisdom? So if the population as a whole has found sufficient meaning and constantly participating in arguments and debates, modern philosophy prospers and our arguments are very relevant.
I’d say that the wisdom is found by those with an analytical mind, not by everyone.

Thank you, Nick, for your stimulating post.

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Re: Why does the public look at philosophy with disdain?

Post by Nick_A » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:11 am

Commonsense
I’m glad to see someone take issue with the assertion that philosophy is viewed with disdain by the general public. I agree that philosophy is experienced by many people, but I think it’s when their experience is not recognized as philosophy that the public finds philosophy to be intriguing.

The political debates and intensified arguments are certainly what captures their attention; however, I think what makes these things interesting to non-philosophers are the debates and arguments themselves. I just don’t see the layperson as sophisticated enough to appreciate philosophical discourse.
But at the same time, how can we discuss philosophy without knowing what it is? Philosophy like art and love are words which have lost all sense of relativity. The same words refers to so many different understandings that these words have become objectively meaningless.

That is really the point I was making. Since there is no definition of philosophy or sense of scale, even the most trivial arguments can be called philosophy. Since people will argue over anything, philosophy can be anything.
Good point. However, I believe it is Thinking Man or Woman who searches for meaning, not Average Man or Women.
Nick_A wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:43 pm
Technology has solved that problem. It has provided the experience of meaning.
Nick, please explain what you mean by this. Thanks.
Do you have a greater need for meaning or self justification? Are they the same? I’ve learned that there have been people willing to abandon their need for self justification for the sake of the experience of objective meaning.

At one time the experiences of awe and wonder were praised. They made us feel our insignificance but at the same time our connection with something greater than ourselves. There was something which made our inner emptiness tolerable but with a sense of inner direction leading to human meaning.

Technology has helped us to escape the experiences of awe and wonder by lessening the attention span and filling our inner lives with imagination. This escapism has suppressed the need for the experiences of awe and wonder with imagination not allowing either the time or atmosphere which furthers opening to awe and wonder.
I’d say that the wisdom is found by those with an analytical mind, not by everyone.
Now that is an important question. I actually initiated a thread called the dualistic mind to discuss this. The analytical mind which is often a quality of the dualistic mind is incapable of feeling objective value – of “conscience.” What does it take for the dualistic analytical mind to open to the third dimension of thought which is the domain of objective value leading to wisdom?

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