The Dualistic Mind

For all things philosophical.

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Nick_A
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Nick_A » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:14 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:28 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:20 pm
Secular intolerance is a most dangerous expression of the dualistic mind.
Spoken like someone who is spinning in his spew. This just proves how small your scope of understanding is. People like Nick cannot come to terms with the awareness of their own creations. He is convinced that his projections and religious fervor are justified, rather than realizing that he is just an ego-driven ranting madman who claims that his ideas are hated because of their truth. Such delusional thinking and creations are far worse for humanity than anything Nick accuses humanity of. He is lazy, typically quoting others and repeating phrases over and over like a mental patient mumbling in a corner. He is doing nothing for humanity, and he takes no responsibility for that -- a leech, in other words. Sucking life energy which he converts into waste product and then spews online. Like a primitive form of bacteria.

The sad thing is that this is the same response the young get in institutions of spiritual child abuse called secular progressive schools. They read something which impresses and awakens them and they get this attitude from adults. If they continue to question they are looked upon as budding ego driven madmen who must be nipped in the bud and made normal.

Lacewing, have you ever made people happy? I work in nursing homes as a keyboard player/vocalist. People with only a few years left have thanked me for coming since I made them feel alive again with songs and humor. I prefer to get paid for making people happy. You would prefer to be paid to participate in progressive spirit killing. To each his own.

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Arising_uk
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Arising_uk » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:45 pm

Nick_A wrote:Written like a true dualist. Science and art as they are expressed in dominant dualistic society today only serve to perpetuate the problem. That is one of the chief failings of the dualistic mind. It lacks both the objective emotional awareness of scale and relativity. This leads to facts without any inner perception of objective meaning.
Always an excuse for not walking the talk of others ideas eh! Nick_A. :lol:

Einstein was both a scientist and a teacher whereas you are neither but think yourself fit to use his ideas for your own tawdry purposes. About that Nick_A, still hearing a big fat silence about what you propose to teach our kids other than providing a liberal arts, humanities and science education(albeit for a restricted subset of them, how will you be choosing those who get the educational opportunity?).

Dubious
Posts: 1951
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Dubious » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:15 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:28 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:20 pm
Secular intolerance is a most dangerous expression of the dualistic mind.
Spoken like someone who is spinning in his spew. This just proves how small your scope of understanding is. People like Nick cannot come to terms with the awareness of their own creations. He is convinced that his projections and religious fervor are justified, rather than realizing that he is just an ego-driven ranting madman who claims that his ideas are hated because of their truth. Such delusional thinking and creations are far worse for humanity than anything Nick accuses humanity of. He is lazy, typically quoting others and repeating phrases over and over like a mental patient mumbling in a corner. He is doing nothing for humanity, and he takes no responsibility for that -- a leech, in other words. Sucking life energy which he converts into waste product and then spews online. Like a primitive form of bacteria.
A very accurate portrait in words every line of it being TRUE!

Tragically there are too many of his kind around who can't figure out that the "cosmic man" still has to eat, sleep and shit and needs a place to call home somewhere in the universe, triune mind or no triune mind.

I'm always surprised at how deformed the human thinking apparatus can get, in what it asserts to be real. Maybe the mind is of a nature whose keyboard must intone its lowest most out-of-tune notes before it creates its inevitable symphonies.

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Greta
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Greta » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:22 pm

Dubious wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:39 am
... quote by Joseph Conrad...
...all my moral and intellectual being is penetrated by an invincible conviction that
whatever falls under the dominion of our senses must be in nature and,
however exceptional, cannot differ in its essence from all the other
effects of the visible and tangible world of which we are a
self-conscious part. The world of the living contains enough marvels and
mysteries as it is; marvels and mysteries acting upon our emotions and
intelligence in ways so inexplicable that it would almost justify the
conception of life as an enchanted state. No, I am too firm in my
consciousness of the marvellous to be ever fascinated by the mere
supernatural, which (take it any way you like) is but a manufactured
article, the fabrication of minds insensitive to the intimate delicacies
of our relation to the dead and to the living, in their countless
multitudes; a desecration of our tenderest memories; an outrage on our
dignity.
A quote for a quote - very similar sentiments:
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

Douglas Adams

Nick_A
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Nick_A » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:27 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:45 pm
Nick_A wrote:Written like a true dualist. Science and art as they are expressed in dominant dualistic society today only serve to perpetuate the problem. That is one of the chief failings of the dualistic mind. It lacks both the objective emotional awareness of scale and relativity. This leads to facts without any inner perception of objective meaning.
Always an excuse for not walking the talk of others ideas eh! Nick_A. :lol:

Einstein was both a scientist and a teacher whereas you are neither but think yourself fit to use his ideas for your own tawdry purposes. About that Nick_A, still hearing a big fat silence about what you propose to teach our kids other than providing a liberal arts, humanities and science education(albeit for a restricted subset of them, how will you be choosing those who get the educational opportunity?).
If I could paint like my great great grandfather and be known as a wizard, I would do so but I don't. If I don't have the talents necessary to introduce the third dimension of thought into science like either Dr. Nicolescu or Einstein or depict awe as did my talented ancestor to the degree that a person feels it, what is so bad about learning?

It seems that philosophy for you should only be discussed by those who worship the Great Beast as the ultimate authority. That is why we couldn't discuss platonic education and the importance of acquiring the ability for impartial attention as opposed to inflicting indoctrination on the young and calling it education.

Conscious attention is the means for escaping the psychological limitations of Plato's cave. The world rejects it and demands the prison of selective indoctrination for a given society.

Nick_A
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Nick_A » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:37 pm

Greta wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:22 pm
Dubious wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:39 am
... quote by Joseph Conrad...
...all my moral and intellectual being is penetrated by an invincible conviction that
whatever falls under the dominion of our senses must be in nature and,
however exceptional, cannot differ in its essence from all the other
effects of the visible and tangible world of which we are a
self-conscious part. The world of the living contains enough marvels and
mysteries as it is; marvels and mysteries acting upon our emotions and
intelligence in ways so inexplicable that it would almost justify the
conception of life as an enchanted state. No, I am too firm in my
consciousness of the marvellous to be ever fascinated by the mere
supernatural, which (take it any way you like) is but a manufactured
article, the fabrication of minds insensitive to the intimate delicacies
of our relation to the dead and to the living, in their countless
multitudes; a desecration of our tenderest memories; an outrage on our
dignity.
A quote for a quote - very similar sentiments:
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

Douglas Adams
Why believe; why not verify? But being so caught up in denial you will never be able to do so.

Nick_A
Posts: 3465
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Nick_A » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:51 pm

Dubious wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:15 pm
Lacewing wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:28 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:20 pm
Secular intolerance is a most dangerous expression of the dualistic mind.
Spoken like someone who is spinning in his spew. This just proves how small your scope of understanding is. People like Nick cannot come to terms with the awareness of their own creations. He is convinced that his projections and religious fervor are justified, rather than realizing that he is just an ego-driven ranting madman who claims that his ideas are hated because of their truth. Such delusional thinking and creations are far worse for humanity than anything Nick accuses humanity of. He is lazy, typically quoting others and repeating phrases over and over like a mental patient mumbling in a corner. He is doing nothing for humanity, and he takes no responsibility for that -- a leech, in other words. Sucking life energy which he converts into waste product and then spews online. Like a primitive form of bacteria.
A very accurate portrait in words every line of it being TRUE!

Tragically there are too many of his kind around who can't figure out that the "cosmic man" still has to eat, sleep and shit and needs a place to call home somewhere in the universe, triune mind or no triune mind.

I'm always surprised at how deformed the human thinking apparatus can get, in what it asserts to be real. Maybe the mind is of a nature whose keyboard must intone its lowest most out-of-tune notes before it creates its inevitable symphonies.
Opening to the triune mind doesn't negate the dualistic sensory mind or the needs of animal man. Animal man serves a universal necessity as does all organic life on earth. A person can open to a higher conscious necessity in addition to animal necessity via the triune mind. Opening to the inner vertical psychological direction reveals human conscious purpose in addition to animal purpose. Balancing the two is not so easy.

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Greta
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Greta » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:54 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:37 pm
Greta wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:22 pm
Dubious wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:39 am
... quote by Joseph Conrad...

A quote for a quote - very similar sentiments:
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?

Douglas Adams
Why believe; why not verify? But being so caught up in denial you will never be able to do so.
The verification has been done and no fairies were found. Remember all the tests trying to find God and soul? All the theists were super excited to hear of a test to measure the weight of a departing soul from the recently deceased. They were less excited to have a negative result.

There are, of course, other dimensions to reality of which we are unaware, but that is not what you are talking about, which is the access of those other dimensions.

If a person claims to access other or higher dimensions of reality, one would expect observable results of this access. Such a person would be expected to possess extraordinary qualities. However, the only extraordinary quality I see in you is persistence. You are otherwise so often shallow and aggressive, and also appear to be afflicted with chronic anxiety issues, so it's clear that either:

1. Whatever you are promoting is 'snake oil' (or at you've misunderstood it) or

2. You were incredibly messed up and this amusingly neurotic persona of yours that I've grappled with for far too long is the new improved version.

So Nicholas, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If you are claiming to be of a higher consciousness than the rest of us then you would need to demonstrate unusual patience, forbearance, compassion, kindness, understanding, empathy, humility and maturity or no one will believe you.

By the same token, I'm not going to take the advice of a life coach who looks depressed and careworn, or a chainsmoking physical trainer, a scientist who cant read or count to high school standard or priests claiming to be in touch with God while actually touching children.

Dubious
Posts: 1951
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Dubious » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:32 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:51 pm
Opening to the inner vertical psychological direction reveals human conscious purpose in addition to animal purpose. Balancing the two is not so easy.
...inner vertical psychological direction, or whatever you wish to call it, has so far revealed virtually nothing of human conscious purpose, though consistently examined since humans were empowered to self-contemplate. What it conversely proves is that your connoted brand of purpose must be manufactured by those who desire one in lieu of there not being any...or put more mildly, none ever having been discovered.

On the other hand, we know and understand very well the purpose of animal functions and how they came about.

Why attempt, and what's the reason to forecast any such thing as "Purpose' in the first place? What purpose would that serve? Why not just attempt to do the right things moving forward and avoid screwing-up too often? The universe gave us no direction in this regard.

Purpose, for those who insist on there being one, then becomes a project in progress instead of any premature revealment by one's "supernatural imagination".

Nick_A
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Nick_A » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:53 am

Dubious wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:32 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:51 pm
Opening to the inner vertical psychological direction reveals human conscious purpose in addition to animal purpose. Balancing the two is not so easy.
...inner vertical psychological direction, or whatever you wish to call it, has so far revealed virtually nothing of human conscious purpose, though consistently examined since humans were empowered to self-contemplate. What it conversely proves is that your connoted brand of purpose must be manufactured by those who desire one in lieu of there not being any...or put more mildly, none ever having been discovered.

On the other hand, we know and understand very well the purpose of animal functions and how they came about.


Why attempt, and what's the reason to forecast any such thing as "Purpose' in the first place? What purpose would that serve? Why not just attempt to do the right things moving forward and avoid screwing-up too often? The universe gave us no direction in this regard.

Purpose, for those who insist on there being one, then becomes a project in progress instead of any premature revealment by one's "supernatural imagination".
If you are seriously concerned with this question you will have to ponder the concept of the conscious universe. Even now science is openly discussing the question but not in the context of levels of reality that i am aware of. But if the universe is conscious, it is not really a stretch to contemplate it as levels of reality. It makes sense to me since the alternative that we are the only conscious beings in the universe serving no purpose is just idiotic. A conscious universe with Man serving a conscious purpose within it makes perfect sense. This excerpt concludes with the following. Only conscious Man can verify it. Animal Man is limited to the domain of earthly duality

http://www.tree-of-souls.com/spirituali ... leman.html
....................In the Hermetic writings the hierarchical structure of the cosmos resembles that of an organism: cell in the service of tissue; tissue in the service of organ; organ in the service of the whole (governed by a supreme consciousness or intelligence). At each level of being there are "gods" or "angels" or, to use less uncomfortable language, "purposeful energies." From this point of view, the ancient spatial descriptions of the cosmos are meant to be understood symbolically.

Likewise, the word "sphere," used in describing the forces and purposes at different levels, is never meant merely to be taken literally. The very idea of the circularity of movement in "the heavens" can be understood to mean not only the encompassing nature of these progressively higher influences, but their eternal nature. The circle is, among many things, a symbol of that which "eternally recurs," that which is not subject to time and change as we know them.

Obviously, there is a great difference between contemplating a universe which exceeds me in size alone or in intricacy alone, and one which exceeds me in depth of purpose and intelligence. A universe of merely unimaginable size excludes man and crushes him. But a universe that is a manifestation of great consciousness and order places man, and therefore calls to him.

So much is obvious, for a conscious universe is the only reality that can include human consciousness. And only when I am completely included by something does the need arise for me to understand my relationship to it in all the aspects of my inner and outer life. Only a conscious universe is relevant to the whole of human life.

Undoubtedly, one contributing factor in our misunderstanding the cosmos of the ancient teachings is our habitual assumption that a conscious universe is somehow more comforting, a psychological crutch. Giorgio de Santillana also speaks to this in Hamlet's mill:

[MAN] is unable to fit himself into the concepts of today's astrophysics short of schizophrenia. Modern man is facing the nonconceivable. Archaic man, however, kept a firm grip on the conceivable by framing within his cosmos an order of time and an eschatology that made sense to him and reserved a fate for his soul. Yet it was a prodigiously vast theory, with no concessions to merely human sentiments. It, too, dilated the mind beyond the bearable, although without destroying man's role in the cosmos. It was a ruthless metaphysics.

"Ruthless" not in the sense of hostile to human hope, ... the universe of the traditional teachings, such as Hinduism and Judaism, is "ruthless" in that it is ruthlessly responsive to what man demands of it and of himself. For whatever man expects from external reality reflects what he asks or fails to ask of himself.

We must explore this thought further, for it can help us to see why the idea of a conscious universe appears to modern man as naive, as either a daydream or a nightmare. Science, as we know it, searches the universe for order and pattern. To pursue this search carefully, objectively, the scientist struggles to be free of his feelings, his inclinations to believe. He may follow hunches--what he calls "intuitions"--but in the final analysis he wishes for proofs that will compel the intellect, and only the intellect. The entire organization of modern science, the community of experimenters and researchers, the teaching of science in the schools, the training of specialists, is based on this ideal of proof that compels the mind.

Looked at in this way, we may conclude that the practice of modern science is based on a demand for human fragmentation, the division between thought and feeling. Searching for an outer unity, the scientist demands of himself an inner disunity. Perhaps "demands" is not the right word. We should simply say that in his practice the scientist endorses the division and inner fragmentation from which all of us suffer in our daily lives.

We now see why a conscious universe makes no sense to modern science. In the ancient teachings, higher mind or consciousness is never identified with thought associations, no matter how ingenious they may be. If these teachings speak of levels of reality higher than human thought, they are referring, among other things, to an order of intelligence that is inclusive of thought. Consciousness is another word for this power of active relationship or inclusion. Can the power to include ever be understood through a process of internal division and exclusion? Fascinated by the activity of thinking, and drawn to it to the extent of psychological lopsidedness, is it any wonder that we modern scientific men almost never directly experience in ourselves that quality of force which used to be called the Active Intellect, and which in the medieval cosmic scheme was symbolized by a great circle that included the entire created universe?

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Lacewing
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Lacewing » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:59 am

Nick_A wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:14 pm
Lacewing, have you ever made people happy?
Of course! It has always been easy and natural to do. Loving and connecting with people is an innate human ability (for many, if not most), and it's a direct line to resonating as one and inspiring joyfully together. This might be harder for someone like you, whose ego continually seeks (and feeds on) separateness.

--/--
Dubious wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:15 pm
A very accurate portrait in words every line of it being TRUE!
Thanks, Dubious! I think I was inspired when I wrote: "a primitive form of bacteria". :lol: It's a bonus when profound insights can be entertaining.

Nick_A
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Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Nick_A » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:01 am

Greta wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:54 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:37 pm
Greta wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:22 pm


A quote for a quote - very similar sentiments:
Why believe; why not verify? But being so caught up in denial you will never be able to do so.
The verification has been done and no fairies were found. Remember all the tests trying to find God and soul? All the theists were super excited to hear of a test to measure the weight of a departing soul from the recently deceased. They were less excited to have a negative result.

There are, of course, other dimensions to reality of which we are unaware, but that is not what you are talking about, which is the access of those other dimensions.

If a person claims to access other or higher dimensions of reality, one would expect observable results of this access. Such a person would be expected to possess extraordinary qualities. However, the only extraordinary quality I see in you is persistence. You are otherwise so often shallow and aggressive, and also appear to be afflicted with chronic anxiety issues, so it's clear that either:

1. Whatever you are promoting is 'snake oil' (or at you've misunderstood it) or

2. You were incredibly messed up and this amusingly neurotic persona of yours that I've grappled with for far too long is the new improved version.

So Nicholas, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If you are claiming to be of a higher consciousness than the rest of us then you would need to demonstrate unusual patience, forbearance, compassion, kindness, understanding, empathy, humility and maturity or no one will believe you.

By the same token, I'm not going to take the advice of a life coach who looks depressed and careworn, or a chainsmoking physical trainer, a scientist who cant read or count to high school standard or priests claiming to be in touch with God while actually touching children.
You are clearly exhibiting psychological projection. You do exactly what you accuse me of. You are closed to these ideas such as Plato's divided line only because of misguided emotional denial. Your loss IMO.

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Lacewing
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Lacewing » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:22 am

Nick_A to Greta wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:01 am
...clearly exhibiting psychological projection... /...closed to these ideas... /...only because of misguided emotional denial.
Nick, this is what you do continually. You are (as you say) "closed to ideas only because of your misguided emotional denial". You really have nailed describing yourself here, although you project it outward and seem convinced that it's coming from "outside" of yourself (like the story of the babysitter who gets scary phone calls coming from inside the house). You should get off that line and save yourself!

Nick_A
Posts: 3465
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Nick_A » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:46 am

Lacewing wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:22 am
Nick_A to Greta wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:01 am
...clearly exhibiting psychological projection... /...closed to these ideas... /...only because of misguided emotional denial.
Nick, this is what you do continually. You are (as you say) "closed to ideas only because of your misguided emotional denial". You really have nailed describing yourself here, although you project it outward and seem convinced that it's coming from "outside" of yourself (like the story of the babysitter who gets scary phone calls coming from inside the house). You should get off that line and save yourself!
Be specific. I've mentioned the ideas introduced by Plato and Plotinus that you appear closed to. Now you tell me what idea or ideas I am closed to.

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Greta
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Re: The Dualistic Mind

Post by Greta » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:58 am

Nick_A wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:01 am
Greta wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:54 pm
Nick_A wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:37 pm


Why believe; why not verify? But being so caught up in denial you will never be able to do so.
The verification has been done and no fairies were found. Remember all the tests trying to find God and soul? All the theists were super excited to hear of a test to measure the weight of a departing soul from the recently deceased. They were less excited to have a negative result.

There are, of course, other dimensions to reality of which we are unaware, but that is not what you are talking about, which is the access of those other dimensions.

If a person claims to access other or higher dimensions of reality, one would expect observable results of this access. Such a person would be expected to possess extraordinary qualities. However, the only extraordinary quality I see in you is persistence. You are otherwise so often shallow and aggressive, and also appear to be afflicted with chronic anxiety issues, so it's clear that either:

1. Whatever you are promoting is 'snake oil' (or at you've misunderstood it) or

2. You were incredibly messed up and this amusingly neurotic persona of yours that I've grappled with for far too long is the new improved version.

So Nicholas, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If you are claiming to be of a higher consciousness than the rest of us then you would need to demonstrate unusual patience, forbearance, compassion, kindness, understanding, empathy, humility and maturity or no one will believe you.

By the same token, I'm not going to take the advice of a life coach who looks depressed and careworn, or a chainsmoking physical trainer, a scientist who cant read or count to high school standard or priests claiming to be in touch with God while actually touching children.
You are clearly exhibiting psychological projection. You do exactly what you accuse me of. You are closed to these ideas such as Plato's divided line only because of misguided emotional denial. Your loss IMO.
Nooo, stop playing games and address what has been written. I'm not promoting anything, so your claim of projection is so misguided it suggests that you don't understand what the term means.

After all these years of claiming to be of a higher consciousness than others, Nick, it's beholden on you to explain why you show few of the qualities to be expected in one who enjoys this purported higher state of consciousness - patience, forbearance, compassion, kindness, understanding, empathy, humility and maturity.

This is such a fatal flaw that you will surely be destined to lay idiotic games online for the rest of your life because people will keep seeing what I'm seeing - a fairly mediocre fellow who claims that his consciousness is operating on a higher plane than most others.

In this you come across as akin to one preaching patience as the most important aspect of life and then snapping at anyone who even looks like disagreeing.

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