Failure of "I".

For all things philosophical.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Arising_uk »

TimeSeeker wrote:Yes. I know how to poke holes in every “Why?” too.

When you get all 8 billion people on Earth to participate in a ritual suicide then you may have an argument. ...
So no then, you wouldn't kill yourself to save humanity but still think the 'objective moral goal' of 'humanity' is to avoid extinction?
Individuals are welcome to get off this train any time. We are expendable. Humanity isn’t.
And yet you wouldn't save 'it' by killing yourself if necessary?
TimeSeeker
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Re: Failure of "I".

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Arising_uk wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:27 am
TimeSeeker wrote:Yes. I know how to poke holes in every “Why?” too.

When you get all 8 billion people on Earth to participate in a ritual suicide then you may have an argument. ...
So no then, you wouldn't kill yourself to save humanity but still think the 'objective moral goal' of 'humanity' is to avoid extinction?
Individuals are welcome to get off this train any time. We are expendable. Humanity isn’t.
And yet you wouldn't save 'it' by killing yourself if necessary?
Can you give me a non-hypothetical scenario where you think that one death can prevent the extinction of 8 billion people?

In practice - I am actually doxastically committed for far less. I have a badge in my wallet that has the “to serve and protect” oath on it. I have risked my life for way less than "all of humanity". I have a memento on my bullet proof vest to prove it to you.
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Arising_uk
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Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Arising_uk »

TimeSeeker wrote:Can you give me a non-hypothetical scenario where you think that one death can prevent the extinction of 8 billion people? ...
Can you tell me how 'humanity' and this 'objective moral goal' are anything but hypotheticals?
In practice - I am actually doxastically committed for far less. I have a badge in my wallet that has the “to serve and protect” oath on it. I have risked my life for way less than "all of humanity". I have a memento on my bullet proof vest to prove it to you.
And yet you wouldn't kill yourself to uphold this 'objective moral goal'?
TimeSeeker
Posts: 2866
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:42 am

Re: Failure of "I".

Post by TimeSeeker »

Arising_uk wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:45 am Can you tell me how 'humanity' and this 'objective moral goal' are anything but hypotheticals?
Because natural selection shows us that social creatures who co-operate have better chance of survival.
Because since the beginning of history humans have herded together for safety in numbers.
Because we have shown exponential technological prowess in the last 300 years.
Because we have tripled the average lifespan of humans in the last 2000 years.
Because when you get sick and you phone an ambulance with STRANGERS arrive to help you.
Because when there is a fire or a criminal in your house STRANGERS arrive. Risking their life to help YOU.
Because when airplanes crash and people die - engineers try to make sure this exact problem NEVER happens again.
Because when one person kills 20 children - all of society is outraged!
Because when one short, German guy with a moustache decided to take what wasn't his - the world turned on him.
Because when 60 million people died in the 2nd world war - we stood around lamenting that it's the "worst thing that has happened in human history".
Because you have the will to live and thrive as do the majority of humans on this planet. As had the humans who came before you. As will the humans who come after you.
Because we are now the dominant species on the planet.
Because the previous "dominant species" are now extinct (the dinosaurs). And it wasn't because they were "immoral" and killed each other. They managed to stick around for 180 million years despite all their brutality, violence and selfishness. And in 180 million years they didn't get off this planet. That's why they are extinct!
Their strategy was fucked up: competition instead of cooperation.

Because of all these reasons: http://www.visualcapitalist.com/6-chart ... improving/

This is from the "objective morality" thread.
TimeSeeker wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:45 pm If murdering one human is immoral/wrong/undesirable/bad (pick your favorite word) then the closest thing to "objective immorality" (the biggest evil, the worst wrong, the ultimate sacrilege) that we HUMANS can conceive is every single one of us DYING. The end of the line for humanity - extinction!

So if Human Extinction is The Worst Evil. Then by contraposition Human Survival is The Best Good.
Arising_uk wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:45 am And yet you wouldn't kill yourself to uphold this 'objective moral goal'?
I haven't committed either way. Convince me how this is going to work exactly.
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