Failure of "I".

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Eodnhoj7
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Failure of "I".

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:43 pm

"I exist" is an objective statement that exists seperate from the subjective experience of "I".

Discuss.

Dalek Prime
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Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:53 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:43 pm
"I exist" is an objective statement that exists seperate from the subjective experience of "I".

Discuss.
Both statements are subjective, or rather, both the experience and the statement are subjective. External confirmation comes from others.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:12 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:53 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:43 pm
"I exist" is an objective statement that exists seperate from the subjective experience of "I".

Discuss.
Both statements are subjective, or rather, both the experience and the statement are subjective. External confirmation comes from others.
That is an objective statement, as objectivity is the symmetry between subjective statements that negate the subjective nature.

For example I may see a unicorn. You may not. This "me seeing the unicorn is subject entirely to me". However if you see it also, it becomes an objective perception in the respect it acts as a unified median between the subjective states which effectively change them.

Dalek Prime
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Location: Living in a tree with Polly.

Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:18 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:12 pm
Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:53 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:43 pm
"I exist" is an objective statement that exists seperate from the subjective experience of "I".

Discuss.
Both statements are subjective, or rather, both the experience and the statement are subjective. External confirmation comes from others.
That is an objective statement, as objectivity is the symmetry between subjective statements that negate the subjective nature.

For example I may see a unicorn. You may not. This "me seeing the unicorn is subject entirely to me". However if you see it also, it becomes an objective perception in the respect it acts as a unified median between the subjective states which effectively change them.
It's only objective from another party. Yes. What are you arguing? The self-experience of I is subjective. So is the statement I exist. What is the issue here?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:27 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:18 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:12 pm
Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:53 pm


Both statements are subjective, or rather, both the experience and the statement are subjective. External confirmation comes from others.
That is an objective statement, as objectivity is the symmetry between subjective statements that negate the subjective nature.

For example I may see a unicorn. You may not. This "me seeing the unicorn is subject entirely to me". However if you see it also, it becomes an objective perception in the respect it acts as a unified median between the subjective states which effectively change them.
It's only objective from another party. Yes. What are you arguing? The self-experience of I is subjective. So is the statement I exist. What is the issue here?
"I" is an objective statement, hence the subjective has roots in the objective and vice versa, and the subjective-objective dual nature of the axiom observes a statement of relation between the undefined subjective state and the defined objective state.

Dalek Prime
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:48 am
Location: Living in a tree with Polly.

Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:39 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:27 pm
Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:18 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:12 pm


That is an objective statement, as objectivity is the symmetry between subjective statements that negate the subjective nature.

For example I may see a unicorn. You may not. This "me seeing the unicorn is subject entirely to me". However if you see it also, it becomes an objective perception in the respect it acts as a unified median between the subjective states which effectively change them.
It's only objective from another party. Yes. What are you arguing? The self-experience of I is subjective. So is the statement I exist. What is the issue here?
"I" is an objective statement, hence the subjective has roots in the objective and vice versa, and the subjective-objective dual nature of the axiom observes a statement of relation between the undefined subjective state and the defined objective state.
I is subjective. It is declared from the I.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:40 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:39 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:27 pm
Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:18 pm


It's only objective from another party. Yes. What are you arguing? The self-experience of I is subjective. So is the statement I exist. What is the issue here?
"I" is an objective statement, hence the subjective has roots in the objective and vice versa, and the subjective-objective dual nature of the axiom observes a statement of relation between the undefined subjective state and the defined objective state.
I is subjective. It is from the I.
Now it is dually objective.

Dalek Prime
Posts: 4763
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:48 am
Location: Living in a tree with Polly.

Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:45 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:40 pm
Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:39 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:27 pm


"I" is an objective statement, hence the subjective has roots in the objective and vice versa, and the subjective-objective dual nature of the axiom observes a statement of relation between the undefined subjective state and the defined objective state.
I is subjective. It is from the I.
Now it is dually objective.
No. The I's are just crossed, now.

I don't see how you suppose your views to be objective, when I know mine are not, try as i might. Any realist knows that they're views are subject to interpretation, and not objective reality.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:37 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:18 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:12 pm
Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:53 pm


Both statements are subjective, or rather, both the experience and the statement are subjective. External confirmation comes from others.
That is an objective statement, as objectivity is the symmetry between subjective statements that negate the subjective nature.

For example I may see a unicorn. You may not. This "me seeing the unicorn is subject entirely to me". However if you see it also, it becomes an objective perception in the respect it acts as a unified median between the subjective states which effectively change them.
It's only objective from another party. Yes. What are you arguing? The self-experience of I is subjective. So is the statement I exist. What is the issue here?

I exist is a claim of existing...who is making the claim it exists?

.

Dalek Prime
Posts: 4763
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:48 am
Location: Living in a tree with Polly.

Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Dalek Prime » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:40 pm

Yeah, still blocked, DAM.

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Dontaskme
Posts: 4725
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:47 pm

Dalek Prime wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:40 pm
Yeah, still blocked, DAM.
Forget about me...

Unblock and see clearly...who is the I making the claim I exist?

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:41 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:43 pm
"I exist" is an objective statement that exists seperate from the subjective experience of "I".
Discuss.
I wonder you understand clearly what is meant to be objective.
Objectivity is a central philosophical concept, objective means being independent of the perceptions thus objectivity means the property of being independent from the perceptions, which has been variously defined by sources.
Generally, objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings.
Note my point, 'truth' is always conditioned upon a specific Framework and System established [explicitly or impliedly] and agreed by a group of humans.
viewtopic.php?p=368747#p368747

If you state "I exist" is an objective statement, then it is fundamentally subjective, i.e. intersubjective via human [subject] made framework and system.

If you intend to allude to an "I AM" that survives physical death, that "I" independent of empirical human conditions is an illusion.

When you use the term 'exist' as in "I exists" note existence is not a predicate.
Thus "I exists" is meaningless without predicates.
The point is the necessary predicates are taken for granted in conventional communications.
In addition the predicates must be empirically verifiable, e.g. I exists as a person with this and that qualities [verifiable].

"I" exists as a permanent soul that survives physical death is not testable and verifiable, thus illusory.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:03 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:41 am
If you state "I exist" is an objective statement, then it is fundamentally subjective, i.e. intersubjective via human [subject] made framework and system.
There is no 'you' stating 'I exist'

'I exist' is the unknown known.

There is no 'you' to know the unknown known. (unclaimed)

You are the unknown known. (unclaimed) (there is no other framework by which the you is known) you are known because you are not known.

Subject and Object are ONE ..in the same instant, namely, now.

One does not come before the other or come after the other. One is indivisible, tis only concepts/language that divides and language is a mental construct an illusion.

One is not an illusion, because one is all there is...which is everything as both the knower internal and the known external.
This one is not in relationship, it only appears to be for the sake of dual communication... but no one is communicating with another, there is only this beginingless source... from source to source an endless spring.

.



.

Dubious
Posts: 1881
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Dubious » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:27 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:43 pm
"I exist" is an objective statement that exists seperate from the subjective experience of "I".
Yeah! but you need an objective "I" to have a subjective experience. I tried to do one without the other and almost didn't make it back.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Failure of "I".

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:02 am

Dontaskme wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:03 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:41 am
If you state "I exist" is an objective statement, then it is fundamentally subjective, i.e. intersubjective via human [subject] made framework and system.
There is no 'you' stating 'I exist'

'I exist' is the unknown known.

There is no 'you' to know the unknown known. (unclaimed)

You are the unknown known. (unclaimed) (there is no other framework by which the you is known) you are known because you are not known.

Subject and Object are ONE ..in the same instant, namely, now.

One does not come before the other or come after the other. One is indivisible, tis only concepts/language that divides and language is a mental construct an illusion.

One is not an illusion, because one is all there is...which is everything as both the knower internal and the known external.
This one is not in relationship, it only appears to be for the sake of dual communication... but no one is communicating with another, there is only this beginingless source... from source to source an endless spring.
Your 'unknown known' is a deception.

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