How good are business monopolies?

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Philosophy Explorer
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How good are business monopolies?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:34 pm

I've once seen it argued they're a more efficient form of business organization, but I have my doubts. Do they even exist?

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:04 am

Its more like an inefficient form of government regulation; Almost every single monopoly that you could think of, exists due to government intervention. ISPs, Power companies, Drug patents - the first two are directly the result of laws which dictate that only certain companies can operate in certain locations. I'm sure there are monopolies born from the free market, but I can't think of any.

But as to exactly what you're asking, I don't quite get it. I mean, obviously these billion dollar ISPs are doing pretty well for themselves. They usually produce some pretty shit product, though. So they're not 'good' in that respect. When it comes to commodities, quality control is a very easy thing for the markets to do. But when it comes to a pretty essential thing like an internet connection, these companies can get away with something that's much less than ideal, and still be successful.

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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by gaffo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:09 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:04 am
Its more like an inefficient form of government regulation; Almost every single monopoly that you could think of, exists due to government intervention. ISPs, Power companies, Drug patents - the first two are directly the result of laws which dictate that only certain companies can operate in certain locations.
WTF????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:04 am
I'm sure there are monopolies born from the free market, but I can't think of any.
how bout the ones you just mentioned above!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gov regulation my ass!!!!!

unless you think removing Net Neutrality, removing Title 2, etc..............thanks shit pie/fcc!

is "gov regulation"

its the opposite.

remove all gov regulation let the "Free" Market consolidate (its inevitable nature without regulation to prevent consolidation) to one ISP to butt-rape anyone that wants to get on the internet.

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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by gaffo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:15 am

BTW then you remove gov regulation - result is ALWAY Monopolies.

also:

BTW Monopolies are the LEAST efficent form of busniess - they don't give a shit about there costomers becuase they know they can butt rape us and we will still bend over, for we do not have a choice to choose another compeditor since there is not one to choose!

they can do less and less, be utter louts, shit on us and we will still ant up for thier shity services.


anyone that has had to deal with ATT/etc knows what i talking about.

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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:17 am

SSoS said:

"I'm sure there are monopolies born from the free market, but I can't think of any."

Indeed they do exist (in principle), but I have it hidden under my hat. Look up Price's Law which someday will be understood better.

🇺🇲PhilX🇺🇲

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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by gaffo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:21 am

seriously buttraped.

example.

net access in most nations (where there is competition/or net access is treated as a utility like electic/water) - folks pay 20 bucks a month (or less).

in america (land of the "free"- thats a laugh!), net access starts at 100 buck a month.

........and sometimes goes DOWN!!!!!!! IF you sign up for their TV-shit package (for the first year - then goes up to 130+ a month).

o you can just go to..........oh wait.....i can't..............ISP collude and lock up towns so you don't have an option of another (and if you do - as i do - i have ONE other - they just "price fix" with the only other compeditor!).

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:55 am

gaffo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:09 am
WTF????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!
As good of a case as your exaggerated exasperation makes - what I'm saying here is not a disputed thing. You could have spent 2 minutes doing a quick google search to figure out that monopolies primarily exist as government monopolies.
how bout the ones you just mentioned above!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gov regulation my ass!!!!!

unless you think removing Net Neutrality, removing Title 2, etc..............thanks shit pie/fcc!

is "gov regulation"
No, I actually agree with you that net neutrality shouldn't have been repealed. What we have here is a government regulation within a heavier government regulation, and that can make things better. I'm not even saying that there should be no control. But it doesn't change the fact that there are only a handful of ISPs in the US because of the government approval process these companies need to go through in order to get a license to provide internet access.

...Frankly gaffo, you bring up net neutrality on a very loose connection to what I'm actually talking about. It has something to do with ISPs, yes, but it has nothing to do with the creation of them as a monopoly.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:02 am

gaffo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:15 am
BTW then you remove gov regulation - result is ALWAY Monopolies.
Oh, yeah, just look at video games, music, movies, literally any form of entertainment. Truly tragic that I have to listen to the 1 same song while playing the 1 same game, every day all the time.

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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by commonsense » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:53 pm

Monopolies are good for business owners & service providers, bad for customers & consumers. Efficiency depends on your viewpoint,

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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by gaffo » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:15 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:02 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:15 am
BTW then you remove gov regulation - result is ALWAY Monopolies.
Oh, yeah, just look at video games, music, movies, literally any form of entertainment. Truly tragic that I have to listen to the 1 same song while playing the 1 same game, every day all the time.
non-sequitor! whataboutery........................pure irrelivancy.

the adults here are talking about the ISPs and the "last mlle".

which there is a monopoly of.

...............


go back and play with your toys.

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Sir-Sister-of-Suck
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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:20 am

gaffo wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:15 am
Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:02 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:15 am
BTW then you remove gov regulation - result is ALWAY Monopolies.
Oh, yeah, just look at video games, music, movies, literally any form of entertainment. Truly tragic that I have to listen to the 1 same song while playing the 1 same game, every day all the time.
non-sequitor! whataboutery........................pure irrelivancy.
I was giving some examples of industries which have no government regulation, yet are very good at giving consumers variety. In fact, they wouldn't have that variety if something like government licences akin to ISPs were required to make movies and video games.

It's exactly relevant because it brings to light the absurdity of your statement that the result of no government regulation is 'always' monopolies. If you really wanted to set up a situation where the free market could lead to a monopoly, you need to first realize that it would not be from competition; An industry where there is going to be competition will never create a monopoly, but sometimes the result of a free market can yield no competition. From what I understand, this was an issue for early toll roads because they were owned by private businesses who wanted to collect money for personal gain rather than maintenance of the road, and that's why there is a lot more government intervention for that. And toll roads are an essential thing for a lot of people, so as I was discussing earlier if people are forced to use something, than a shitty product with a shitty price can successfully thrive.
the adults here are talking about the ISPs and the "last mlle".

which there is a monopoly of.
ISPs are actually not what this thread was about, or why I was responding to you, but okay.

And I explained why its a monopoly created by government control; The licenses these companies need to acquire before they are allowed to supply internet in the US discourages many competitors. There's also an issue of government-granted territories, which I know less about, but is similar to the way we treat power companies. That means a company like 'Xfinity' isn't allowed to supply internet access in certain areas, where Comcast might be able to.
go back and play with your toys.
Funny enough, toys are another example of a thriving industry with little to no government regulation, at least not the kind relevant to what we're talking about.
Last edited by Sir-Sister-of-Suck on Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:21 am

Natural monopolies are what they are: not good or bad ('cept to those who benefit or are hurt directly)....leave them be to rise and fall as they will.

Propped monopolies are just carbuncles on our keisters...oppose them as you can (or not...meh).

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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by gaffo » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:02 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:20 am
An industry where there is going to be competition will never create a monopoly
your Libertarian (I'm a Libraltarian BTW - yes some of us are both Liberal and Libertarian - we value accurate interpretation of the Constitution, value it over near all else/ and also value Jury Pardon to right wrongs (why i fully support FIJA) view of the economy is a religion to you.

to me the view "free market will provide all" - is bullshit.

without needed regulation by gov, all "Free markets" end up as monopolies.

what part of Helicom96 did you miss?

Merger mania = "an offer the small cannot resist" (hell ya! I'd sellout for a nice fat high paycheck - as would you)

result is one/two entities with all the power to jack up the prices (or ruin radio in Helicon's case).

------------------

You have your religion of "free market" - and so a Fudie, we really having nothing more to discuss here.

we shall agree to dissagree on this.

i welcome any discussion of any other matters.

but on this particular we are done - you have blinders on, and i will not waste my time on futility.

peace.

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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by Dalek Prime » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:23 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:34 pm
I've once seen it argued they're a more efficient form of business organization, but I have my doubts. Do they even exist?

🇺🇲PhilX🇺🇲
Depends on the type. There are vertical and horizontal monopolies. And then there are oligopolies, with few competitors making deals so they don't have to compete with one another, but sit back and enjoy the money flow. Until, of course, they see a way of becoming a monopoly at the others expense.

No, they are not more efficient. You don't have to concern yourself with efficiencies when you are the only one. But they do have staying power because of their share of the market

And yes, they do exist, both historically and presently. Usually in oligopoly form, but also monopoly.

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Re: How good are business monopolies?

Post by Sir-Sister-of-Suck » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:05 pm

gaffo wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:02 am
your Libertarian
I'm actually not, but your attempt to boil my statements down to a mere partisan disagreement is dishonest, when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and make no substantive argument to the contrary. What you quoted is not something something disputable by party lines, it is necessarily true that actual competition cannot lead to a monopoly; Take a second to think about that. Like I said, you can think an open market gives way to no competition, and the frequency of that is something we can debate.
to me the view "free market will provide all" - is bullshit.

without needed regulation by gov, all "Free markets" end up as monopolies.
I never even said that, in fact I basically told you that it won't

No it won't, and I've demonstrated that it won't. If you think the music and movies over in North Korea are any better - where they need to be government approved, maybe you should move over there? According to you, that's what the american entertainment industry needs to not be 'monopolized' as it apparently is right now.
FIJA, Helicom96
I have no idea what either of those things are, gaffo.
but on this particular we are done - you have blinders on, and i will not waste my time on futility.
Trust me, you've wasted plenty of your time already, by going off on so many barely connected tangents, and repeating things I've already discredited.

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