Why do people who live in Scandinavia (and Europe?) see American liberalism as their own conservatism?

[commonsense]

I've heard that liberalism in America is seen as conservatism overseas. I cannot fathom how this could be. Perhaps it is in fact because I'm American that I can't see domestic affairs through the lens of an international perspective. I just can't imagine how any policy, program or ideology could be farther to the left than the same in the States.

Do our offshore neighbors condone physician-assisted suicide under any circumstances? Euthanasia unconditionally? Do they oppose capital punishment? Is abortion commonly accepted among the majority of liberal Swedes or Danes? Norwegians? Icelanders?

Likewise, is American conservatism akin to what European moderates and centrists are saying?

[henry quirk]

Untill recently, American liberalism 'was' conservative, in comparison.

Over the past ten years (more or less) the American liberal has tranformed into the American Progressive, a creature which has nuthin' to do with 'democracy' (democrats).

They're a buncha commies (antifa, black live matter, wetoo, etc.).

[commonsense]

They're a buncha commies (antifa, black live matter, wetoo, etc.).

The examples you mention all advocate some form of taking wealth from the wealthy and redistributing it among everyone,
but in practical terms are they really communist?

[henry quirk]

Well, as far as I can tell, they do a damned sight more than that.

As far as namin' them: call 'em what you like. I often go with commies/communitarians, but I'm not married to either.

'Motherfuckers' works well too

[commonsense]

Can you think of anything nice to say about the motherfuckers? Seriously, anything at all.

[FlashDangerpants]

I've heard that liberalism in America is seen as conservatism overseas. I cannot fathom how this could be. Perhaps it is in fact because I'm American that I can't see domestic affairs through the lens of an international perspective. I just can't imagine how any policy, program or ideology could be farther to the left than the same in the States.

Do our offshore neighbors condone physician-assisted suicide under any circumstances? Euthanasia unconditionally? Do they oppose capital punishment? Is abortion commonly accepted among the majority of liberal Swedes or Danes? Norwegians? Icelanders?

Likewise, is American conservatism akin to what European moderates and centrists are saying?

Physician assisted suicide is allowed in a few places. It would be allowed in a lot more if doctors were up for it but they get understandably squeamish about that one. So recently a Belgian guy whose ex missus threw a big glass of acid in his face in Britain travelled back to Belgium to get himself euthanised. In the past there would have been a lot of fuss about not allowing him to go there for that, but it isn't controversial any more. Unconditional euthanasia is something I can't help you with, euthenasia is necessarily predicated on suffering and need, so those are conditions.

Capital punishment is not allowed anywhere in the EU at all. The European Convention on Human Rights doesn't permit it. There's a Stalinist little heap called Belarus that still has it. Beyond that, even Russia doesn't formally sentence anyone to death as far as I know - they have other customs for that sort of thing.

Abortion was only ever controversial in the most heavily Catholic countries in Europe, and has never been a matter of left or right wing politics really. It was for instance banned in Romania under the actual communist rule of Nicolae Ceausescu, as well Ireland under what Henry would consider communism, but nobody here would. Then again, it was originally a niche Catholic issue in America as well. Apparently opinions differ as to how and why it suddenly became an issue for baptists several years after Rowe V Wade.

There are no places in the developed parts of Europe where health care isn't universal and either pretty much free at the point of use (as in the UK), or else costs largely reimbursed (as in France). No two countries organise this stuff in exactly the same way though. Switzerland makes everybody buy insurance from a small number of private insurers - like Obamacare but done by people who want it to work. In Germany most of the hospitals are owned by companies or charities. In Britian, one giant unruly bureaucracy sort of controls everything everywhere, but chaotically because we are the UK and we do chaos rather well. The British method is best value for money though. The Swiss keep everyone alive better than we do, but we all do that better than you guys.

There are some countries in Europe where university education is free. Everywhere else is still much cheaper than in America, although the most expensive place to study in Europe is Britain and it is perhaps not by coincidence that we are the only country that can challenge the USA ivy league colleges in those global university rankings.

All that stuff which looks like total socialism from your side of the pond looks like plain common sense to us.

When our right and left wings argue over health care in particular, the possibility of switching to an American system like it is some sort of improvement never comes up. That idea is insanity, politically suicidal like no other. You could shit in the Queen's mouth and lose less votes than closing half a dozen hospitals would cost you.... Instead of that nonsense, left and right argue over who looks after our health services best. The left accuse the right of not providing enough funds for the healthcare system, and the right wing accuses the left of mismanaging it, at risk of ultimately making it ultimately unaffordable.

Even the guys that Steve Bannon is buddies with over here wouldn't get rid of the NHS for fucking anything. They are crazy right wing nutters, so they would do dumb stuff to foreigners using our hospitals, but that's it.

So yeah, Obamacare was nothing like what we have, and not even close to socialism as we would see it. Obama was to the right of Margaret Thatcher there.

[QuantumT]

Do our offshore neighbors condone physician-assisted suicide under any circumstances? Euthanasia unconditionally? Do they oppose capital punishment? Is abortion commonly accepted among the majority of liberal Swedes or Danes? Norwegians? Icelanders?

Yes.

[commonsense]

Thanks, Flash, for a thorough explanation. Mind you, I don’t claim to be progressive nor conservative on either side of the big pond. And I agree completely with your characterizations of the U.S.

[Sir-Sister-of-Suck]

Other people covered it sufficiently, more or less. Largely, it's a statement made in mind of a bunch of different random policies. I usually don't see the point made in a technical, side-by-side comparison of all the issues. It's not to say the sentiment that America is more right-leaning isn't true, because I would probably say that it is, it's just that some things are kind of hard to compare because they're more strict in different ways. For example in the UK, far more drugs are illegal, but the punishment of drug-related crimes generally don't carry the same severity. I will say that when it comes to freedom of expression and statism, we are very liberal compared to most other nations.

However, the main problem that I really have, is that a lot of progressives use this line of thinking to justify things that aren't as economically or culturally applicable to america, like gun control, operations of our police force, or a 15 dollar minimum wage. That last thing isn't even that common in European countries, but I mention it on purpose because I believe this group of people is also guilty of cluster correlating issues in order to push america further to the left.

[henry quirk]

"Can you think of anything nice to say about the motherfuckers? Seriously, anything at all."

Nope.