How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

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mtmynd1
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How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by mtmynd1 »

How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Any conversation about god(s) seems to bring out the atheists, the agnostics, the believers, the skeptics, the seekers, religious minds and philosophers alike. Each of these if asked what the word "god" signifies for them, we'd find just as many viewpoints as there are listed here (and I'm sure more). 



There will be the majority who envision "God" as a male, therefore the common use of "He" (capitalized, of course). Amongst those are the believers and even some agnostics who believe this "God" they envision has hu'man-like features like eyes, a mouth, ears and hands. Why? Their religious books speak of their "God" as one who sees what they are doing, ears what they say, speaks to the faithful and has even written the Bible.



Amongst the atheists these types of qualities ensures complete doubt and furthers their own belief in No God versus God. Afterall when conceptualizing a God that closely resembles that of our own species, the atheist along with the skeptic and even the agnostic must curl their lips and squint their eyes finding it impossible that a God who has created all things actually looks like us. But the true believer easily accepts this as having been written in the Bible itself under Genesis 1:27 (and other areas as well with various descriptions depending upon the author(s) at the time. )



Skeptics have a great time with this as there really is no true consensus on the interpretation of this verse. If there was there would not be so many different interpretations. Even the agnostic's belief is strengthen when this comes up. Who to believe? Afterall aren't we talking about our God who made us and everything else? 

This is the common understanding of "God'... a hu'man-like presence who when speaking invokes cherubs in the sky and a beautiful halo surrounding "His" head as "He" is speaking. This is God as the majority understand their God to be. This image is powerfully ingrained in the minds of the true believers and anything another would say to spoil this vision would undoubtedly be an agent of Satan. Years and years of conditioning by the local priests and preachers, the reverends and pastors... those who interpret the Holy Book for the followers who must believe their leaders.



Is it any wonder that the non-believer loves these stories and images? The stories paint these pictures of myths... fantasies, imaginings of super hu'man beings called "gods" like the Romans and Greeks did. A good non-believer takes pride in refuting such fantasies as perilous to their own thinking... the purity of reality and fact-given truths based upon scientific evidence. You'll never convince those believers in science that there is anything to religiosity. The non-believers are just as assured their belief system is the only path just as the true believer is in their path.



However, despite what name we call ourselves regarding a "God" or the "God", it is incumbent upon ourselves to seek out the Truth for it is the Truth (capital 'T') that outlives any and all Gods that we, ourselves have created to bring us comfort and security, no matter how marginal that may be. It's been good enough for our parents and their parents and the parents before them and it is good enough for us.



Is it? Is that all we need... this continuing belief system of God versus No-God, agnostic versus skeptic, believer versus atheist...? After all, it is what WE ourselves envision as a God that makes us believers or non-believers. Our vision is what makes our belief system what it is. Whatever we envision is in our mind... that wondrous tool that has been with us on our journey, our evolution since we became cognizant of being. But despite all that time and effort we've put into being, we still fall short in living a life of awareness. We are still sleep walking, in a dream-state filled with illusions and ideas that trick us... fooling ourselves into believing are supreme beings with super powers just like God Himself. How foolish we are. The truth is we are in our infancy upon this singular planet we call Earth. We are still evolving, we are still adapting to this planet, we are still growing up. We are far from the pinnacle we long to attain. But given our potential, we will attain our completeness, our fullness, our awakened state that will outshine the best of our ideas of a God.

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bahman
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by bahman »

God is love, problem of evil.
God is perfect, we are imperfect.
God is omnipresent, we don't experience God.
Etc.
These are all problems which means that we require a proper definition of God. Otherwise you cannot prove God.
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mtmynd1
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by mtmynd1 »

bahman wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 7:38 pm God is love, problem of evil.
God is perfect, we are imperfect.
These two examples show the duality of our way of thinking.
God is omnipresent, we don't experience God.
Would you agree that the space surrounding the Universe and the Universe itself are One... each without the other is not possible.

That One is an Absolute, IOW omnipresent.
These are all problems which means that we require a proper definition of God. Otherwise you cannot prove God.
You are correct that "we" don't experience that which we all "God" or any of it's equivalents. But that there are some that HAVE experienced the Absolute.
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by commonsense »

mtmynd1 wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 8:18 pm … there are some that HAVE experienced the Absolute.
I'll allow that some are deeply convinced that they have experienced the Absolute.

However, their deep conviction is not evidence of the existence of God.
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by QuantumT »

How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

By making an emotional decision based on a crisis averted by something he/she considers divine.

Belief in God or Allah can never origin in knowledge. The sum of all knowledge contradicts the traditional concept of God.
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by Nick_A »

mtmynd1
Is it? Is that all we need... this continuing belief system of God versus No-God, agnostic versus skeptic, believer versus atheist...? After all, it is what WE ourselves envision as a God that makes us believers or non-believers. Our vision is what makes our belief system what it is. Whatever we envision is in our mind... that wondrous tool that has been with us on our journey, our evolution since we became cognizant of being. But despite all that time and effort we've put into being, we still fall short in living a life of awareness. We are still sleep walking, in a dream-state filled with illusions and ideas that trick us... fooling ourselves into believing are supreme beings with super powers just like God Himself. How foolish we are. The truth is we are in our infancy upon this singular planet we call Earth. We are still evolving, we are still adapting to this planet, we are still growing up. We are far from the pinnacle we long to attain. But given our potential, we will attain our completeness, our fullness, our awakened state that will outshine the best of our ideas of a God.
You are the only person I’ve read on this forum who is open to the idea that “We are still sleep walking, in a dream-state filled with illusions and ideas that trick us...”

If we do live in Plato’s cave attached to the shadows on the wall, what good are our man made God concepts? At the same time living with the restrictions of the human condition means we do not know what a human being is much less the potential for human being. To make matters worse there does seem to be a dedicated egoistic effort to keep humanity as a whole in this dream state. If we ask “what is God,” can we actually have a realistic experience without first asking “What is Man?” Without beginning meaningful efforts to know thyself, to have the conscious experience of oneself, nothing is possible other than continuing arguments about what we cannot understand as we are. The chaotic quality of our being prevents it.
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by Walker »

Nick_A wrote: Sat May 26, 2018 12:36 am mtmynd1

You are the only person I’ve read on this forum who is open to the idea that “We are still sleep walking, in a dream-state filled with illusions and ideas that trick us...”
Come on now.

It’s a well-known concept and many folks are taught early.

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Merrily merrily merrily merrily
Life is but a dream


It’s also a well-known Buddhist view.

Realizing the view via reflection upon experience is choiceless.
So is the hearing of teachings when young.
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by Nick_A »

Walker wrote: Sat May 26, 2018 7:24 am
Nick_A wrote: Sat May 26, 2018 12:36 am mtmynd1

You are the only person I’ve read on this forum who is open to the idea that “We are still sleep walking, in a dream-state filled with illusions and ideas that trick us...”
Come on now.

It’s a well-known concept and many folks are taught early.

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Merrily merrily merrily merrily
Life is but a dream


It’s also a well-known Buddhist view.

Realizing the view via reflection upon experience is choiceless.
So is the hearing of teachings when young.

Saying and understanding are not the same. How many threads have you seen discussing what we ARE as opposed to threads arguing about what to do and or what to believe?
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by bahman »

mtmynd1 wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 8:18 pm
bahman wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 7:38 pm God is love, problem of natural evil.
God is perfect, we are imperfect.
These two examples show the duality of our way of thinking.
I think it shows a contradiction in definition of God.
mtmynd1 wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 8:18 pm
God is omnipresent, we don't experience God.
Would you agree that the space surrounding the Universe and the Universe itself are One... each without the other is not possible.
That One is an Absolute, IOW omnipresent.
You fall in trap of infinite regress if you assume that there is a space surrounding the universe.
mtmynd1 wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 8:18 pm
These are all problems which means that we require a proper definition of God. Otherwise you cannot prove God.
You are correct that "we" don't experience that which we all "God" or any of it's equivalents. But that there are some that HAVE experienced the Absolute.
You didn't get what I mean.
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mtmynd1
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by mtmynd1 »

commonsense wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 11:06 pm
mtmynd1 wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 8:18 pm … there are some that HAVE experienced the Absolute.

However, their deep conviction is not evidence of the existence of God.

The evidence in a god is a futile journey. When we come to realize that what mankind calls "god" or it's 10,000 other names, is a search for a material being, 3D being that is the Overgod of All Life". Any "god" is beyond logic, beyond matter, beyond simple religious belief... it is spiritual, of the spirit, which transcends our understanding.
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by mtmynd1 »

commonsense said: "if you assume that there is a space surrounding the universe."

there is space between all matter in the Universe. between all is space. space relies on matter relies on space, ad infinitum. this is the what is whether your commonsense approves or not. It matters little.
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by commonsense »

mtmynd1 wrote: Sun May 27, 2018 8:33 pm commonsense said: "if you assume that there is a space surrounding the universe."
A fair assumption, but when did I assert it?
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by commonsense »

commonsense wrote: Mon May 28, 2018 4:04 pm
mtmynd1 wrote: Sun May 27, 2018 8:33 pm commonsense said: "if you assume that there is a space surrounding the universe."
A fair assumption, but when did I assert it?
mtmynd1, have you attributed someone else's quote here?
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by Lacewing »

mtmynd1 wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 5:11 am We are still evolving, we are still adapting to this planet, we are still growing up. We are far from the pinnacle we long to attain. But given our potential, we will attain our completeness, our fullness, our awakened state that will outshine the best of our ideas of a God.
Amen!
Nick_A wrote: Sat May 26, 2018 12:36 am mtmynd1
You are the only person I’ve read on this forum who is open to the idea that “We are still sleep walking, in a dream-state filled with illusions and ideas that trick us...”
That's because you're not paying attention, Nick, and you ignore things that challenge and squash your beloved isolated platform that you thrive on and identify yourself with.

A lot of people share the above perspective, they just don't frame it in the intoxicated way that you do... and that's because you are sleep-walking in your own dream-state filled with illusions and ideas that trick you... and a lot of people aren't interested in that. :)
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Re: How Does an Atheist Come to Believe in God?

Post by Nick_A »

Lacewing wrote: Wed May 30, 2018 9:55 pm
mtmynd1 wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 5:11 am We are still evolving, we are still adapting to this planet, we are still growing up. We are far from the pinnacle we long to attain. But given our potential, we will attain our completeness, our fullness, our awakened state that will outshine the best of our ideas of a God.
Amen!
Nick_A wrote: Sat May 26, 2018 12:36 am mtmynd1
You are the only person I’ve read on this forum who is open to the idea that “We are still sleep walking, in a dream-state filled with illusions and ideas that trick us...”
That's because you're not paying attention, Nick, and you ignore things that challenge and squash your beloved isolated platform that you thrive on and identify yourself with.

A lot of people share the above perspective, they just don't frame it in the intoxicated way that you do... and that's because you are sleep-walking in your own dream-state filled with illusions and ideas that trick you... and a lot of people aren't interested in that. :)
Who else has explained why they are living in Plato's Cave, what it means, and the way out? I want to dialogue with them.
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