AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

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uwot
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AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by uwot » Wed May 23, 2018 8:21 am

I thought some of you might be interested in what a hard-nosed atheist might have to say about his experience of being 'dead'. http://www.newdualism.org/nde-papers/Ay ... 9--1-6.pdf

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Greta
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by Greta » Wed May 23, 2018 9:20 am

uwot wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 8:21 am
I thought some of you might be interested in what a hard-nosed atheist might have to say about his experience of being 'dead'. http://www.newdualism.org/nde-papers/Ay ... 9--1-6.pdf
I was.

No matter which way you imagine it, being conscious while in the throes of brain death after the heart stops must be incredibly bizarre and tense.

uwot
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by uwot » Wed May 23, 2018 2:06 pm

Greta wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:20 am
No matter which way you imagine it, being conscious while in the throes of brain death after the heart stops must be incredibly bizarre and tense.
Seems trippy, by all accounts. Ah well; something to look forward to.

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Greta
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by Greta » Wed May 23, 2018 11:59 pm

uwot wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 2:06 pm
Greta wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:20 am
No matter which way you imagine it, being conscious while in the throes of brain death after the heart stops must be incredibly bizarre and tense.
Seems trippy, by all accounts. Ah well; something to look forward to.
We have been through trippier - birth :)

Generally speaking, when we are on the verge of dying, we can probably expect bliss from ocytocin release, a rapid letting go of living concerns and a rare degree of complete focus (it's not as though one is prone to distractions at that point, especially with the nervous system shutting down).

Dubious
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by Dubious » Thu May 24, 2018 12:17 am

Whether from theist or atheist, such experiences are worth very little. There's only a couple of things we know for sure. They are all supremely intense which seems perfectly logical considering what's happening; (2) while experiencing finality the brain must still be alive though firing on all neurons due to trauma.

No one ever came back to tell of their experience of being dead, only how the final curtain call played out...a short period during which one may be resurrected to tell the story never having gone the entire distance. Had that happened, there wouldn't be a single mystery left to ponder.

Brains R Us. You are your brain in toto though for some that may turn out to be a liability.

uwot
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by uwot » Thu May 24, 2018 7:37 am

Greta wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 11:59 pm
We have been through trippier - birth :)
I must have been drunk. I can't remember a thing about it.

uwot
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by uwot » Thu May 24, 2018 7:38 am

Dubious wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 12:17 am
Whether from theist or atheist, such experiences are worth very little.
Depends if you like stories.

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Greta
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by Greta » Thu May 24, 2018 7:45 am

uwot wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 7:38 am
Dubious wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 12:17 am
Whether from theist or atheist, such experiences are worth very little.
Depends if you like stories.
Depends on whether the subjective experiences of you and yours matter to you or not.

No wonder theists become peeved - the slightest deviation for orthodoxy is dissed.

Dubious
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by Dubious » Thu May 24, 2018 8:58 am

uwot wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 7:38 am
Dubious wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 12:17 am
Whether from theist or atheist, such experiences are worth very little.
Depends if you like stories.
I'd have thought you would have taken it a little more seriously since you posted it especially coming from a fairly well-known philosopher.

Anyways, I find these NDE stories tedious; it's invariably the same with nothing ever to be gleaned from it...the ultimate Dead End much like philosophy forums, a total waste of time.

jayjacobus
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by jayjacobus » Thu May 24, 2018 11:29 am

An NDE is suggestive like circumstantial evidence. To some people that's enough. To others it's not.

uwot
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by uwot » Thu May 24, 2018 12:32 pm

Dubious wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 8:58 am
I'd have thought you would have taken it a little more seriously...
Really? Have you read my posts?

iolo
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by iolo » Thu May 24, 2018 1:23 pm

My father was a parson, and had a great fascination with these 'after death experiences'. He was technically dead for a few minutes as he was being rushed to hospital, and a bit disappointed, There was, he said, just Nothing.

Dubious
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by Dubious » Thu May 24, 2018 7:57 pm

uwot wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 12:32 pm
Dubious wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 8:58 am
I'd have thought you would have taken it a little more seriously...
Really? Have you read my posts?
Yours are among the few I usually give priority to since there's almost nothing else left. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Thu May 24, 2018 10:39 pm

While it makes entertaining reading I don't see how it would have any particular effect one way or another on someone's 'hard-nosed atheism'. There is no mention of god or gods, just a couple of 'guardians'. I think the brain does some very peculiar things when it's shutting down. Perhaps it has some mechanism to make death 'easier'. People do often talk about the dying as suddenly getting a very peaceful and contented look--I've seen that look myself.

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Greta
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Re: AJ Ayer's Near Death Experience.

Post by Greta » Thu May 24, 2018 11:18 pm

Take home message of the thread:

Everything in nature is really fascinating aside from human subjectivity, which is boring because it can't be measured.

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